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  #611  
Old 02-15-2010, 08:20 PM
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Dave, we don't celebrate Christmas based on your church's calendar. The Christmas season begins as soon as Santa closes out the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade & ends approx. 30sec before the clock strikes midnight on New Year's.

You couldn't make us drink your tea or pay your taxes, you're certainly not gonna be able to make us put up our lights whenever you say!
Its not my Callendar...it comes from Continental Europe...and trust me, a large majority of your Churches will follow the Lectionary...or do you think they just wake up and preach on whatever they feel like each sunday morning

Secondly...in England, as far as Comercialism goes, Christmas begins on September 7th each year but finishes on 24th December (by which time the eggs are already arriving for Easter...and I aint kidding)
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:46 PM
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Its not my Callendar...it comes from Continental Europe...and trust me, a large majority of your Churches will follow the Lectionary...or do you think they just wake up and preach on whatever they feel like each sunday morning

Secondly...in England, as far as Comercialism goes, Christmas begins on September 7th each year but finishes on 24th December (by which time the eggs are already arriving for Easter...and I aint kidding)
I never said it was your calendar, Dave. You really need to start reading people's posts more carefully & not be so quick to take offense. I said it was the calendar of your church. Was I mistaken in assuming that your church follows the liturgical calendar?

Yes, I'm aware that some churches follow that calendar: mainly the Catholics & the Episcopalians. Most of the reformed churches don't, though.

O & I'm not talking about when Wal-Mart starts hustling their cheap plastic elf ears, either.

Here's what you need to understand, Dave: whenever you try to get into an argument of AMERICAN culture, AMERICAN traditions, AMERICAN sentiment, AMERICAN politics, AMERICAN sports, etc., you need to realize that you DO NOT KNOW as much as the AMERICAN you're arguing with. You don't live here. You haven't spent 18+yrs of your life being taught our history. You don't experience it day in & day out.

I'm glad that you've been able to come over here twice. I think it's awesome that you're so interested in learning about us. I appreciate the fact that you spend a lot of time trying to read about our lives. It just doesn't change the fact that you'll never be as well versed in AMERICAN life as an AMERICAN CITIZEN.

In this thread, Donna Marie was talking about the AMERICAN custom of when Christmas lights "should" be put up & taken down. What possible expertise do you have in when Americans put up & take down their lights? I then tried to help you out by letting you know what our traditions are. You then decided that, no, that was unacceptable. The Englishman now needed to teach the American about various EUROPEAN calenders that would prove to me that I knew nothing about when Americans put their lights up.

Can you see how this attitude can very easily be interpreted as arrogant and pompous?
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  #613  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:09 PM
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1) I never said it was your calendar, Dave. You really need to start reading people's posts more carefully & not be so quick to take offense.

2) I said it was the calendar of your church. Was I mistaken in assuming that your church follows the liturgical calendar?

3) Yes, I'm aware that some churches follow that calendar: mainly the Catholics & the Episcopalians. Most of the reformed churches don't, though.

4) O & I'm not talking about when Wal-Mart starts hustling their cheap plastic elf ears, either.

5) Here's what you need to understand, Dave: whenever you try to get into an argument of AMERICAN culture, AMERICAN traditions, AMERICAN sentiment, AMERICAN politics, AMERICAN sports, etc., you need to realize that you DO NOT KNOW as much as the AMERICAN you're arguing with. You don't live here. You haven't spent 18+yrs of your life being taught our history. You don't experience it day in & day out.

6) I'm glad that you've been able to come over here twice. I think it's awesome that you're so interested in learning about us. I appreciate the fact that you spend a lot of time trying to read about our lives.

7) It just doesn't change the fact that you'll never be as well versed in AMERICAN life as an AMERICAN CITIZEN.

8)In this thread, Donna Marie was talking about the AMERICAN custom of when Christmas lights "should" be put up & taken down. What possible expertise do you have in when Americans put up & take down their lights? I then tried to help you out by letting you know what our traditions are. You then decided that, no, that was unacceptable. The Englishman now needed to teach the American about various EUROPEAN calenders that would prove to me that I knew nothing about when Americans put their lights up.

9) Can you see how this attitude can very easily be interpreted as arrogant and pompous?
1) ive never taken offense
2) I dont really go to church except periodically
3) I suspect they do follow a liturgical callendar of some sort
4) We dont sell "elf ears"
5) What I have is a nice little thing called "objectivity" trust me, i'm a hell of a lot nicer then a good lot of the rest of the world would be on the topics I talk about. All you do is dwell on the few negative statements I make...rather then seeing all the positive I write, because the vast majority of you are incapable of ever admitting you might be mistaken, and usually incapable of truely seeing another point of view
6) Really? There are many who tired long ago of listening to your side of the story, you should remember that. A lot of people simply do not bother with Americans anymore for precisely the reason you all so have wonderfully demonstrated right hear. You just dont see reason, you arent open to debate, you wont discuss, because naturally you all know best. Its a Stereotype I spend my whole entire life trying to eradicate in the minds of people I work with. If it wasnt a labour of Love and nostalgia you wouldnt be so lucky. The fact is, your probably dont care.
7) you actually mean a native citizen, because I could arrive on your shores, and become naturalized, then I would be just as much a citizen as you. Thats not, of course what your saying.
No I am not, and never will be American. Sometimes it makes me sad, sometimes it is a relief
8) when you try and defend someone like that, you make them look weak like they cant defend themselves and you shouldnt do it. So an American, who is currently pissed off with me, has told me in the past. I have no problem with what DonnaMarie put at all...if she found offense, then I'm reasonably sure she could handle me
9) I am caring less and less about what people think of me. What is the point. People are never happy and continually trying to drag you down until you just look false. I'm not perfect, I have my flaws, I know what they are. Those who are close to me know and love me for who I am. The rest doesnt matter. One cant be all things to all people. Some people will find my arrogant, well I admit I am very opinionated and vocal and judgemental. Some people will find me pompous, even in Britian my accent makes me sound stuck up. So what. If you dont know me better then that, I shouldnt waste my time trying to convince you, or worse, pandering and faking a response. There is no point. You will decide for yourself, and your decision is only an opinion, and if you are not a close friend, it wont worry me.
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  #614  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:52 PM
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1) ive never taken offense
I'm assuming you must only be talking about in this thread...if that's the case, then I misread your post. My bad.

2) I dont really go to church except periodically
OK, but when you do go, the church which you attend uses a liturgical calendar, does it not? Just because you're not a regular attender doesn't change which calendar they do or do not follow.

3) I suspect they do follow a liturgical callendar of some sort
OK, Dave, you can suspect all you want, but I'm telling you, not as an arrogant American, but as regular attender of a Reformed Presbyterian church who has also attended services at many other reformed churches throughout my life in a variety of the different denominations, most do not. Am I trying that there are absolutely no reformed churches which employ the liturgical calender? Of course not. I'm simply saying that MOST do not.

This is a perfect example of an American telling you how things are done in America, and you deciding to ignore that info simply because you "suspect" other wise.


4) We dont sell "elf ears"
Dave, don't create a straw-man to attack. The point I was clearly trying to make was that I was not basing my comments on the commercial calender, not which item is or is not offered in which stores (I've seen elf ears sold in my local Wal-Mart). You said when your store begins stocking Christmas items & I was telling you that was irrelevant to this discussion.

5) What I have is a nice little thing called "objectivity" trust me, i'm a hell of a lot nicer then a good lot of the rest of the world would be on the topics I talk about. All you do is dwell on the few negative statements I make...rather then seeing all the positive I write, because the vast majority of you are incapable of ever admitting you might be mistaken, and usually incapable of truely seeing another point of view
You don't really get it, do you Dave? The fact that you're an "objective (i.e. outside) observer is precisely why you aren't qualified to correct an American on American traditions. If I were to tell you that all Englishmen should properly be referred to as "Sir", and you said "Actually, Ben, that's not true. Only those who have the honor of being knighted deserve the appellation of 'Sir'.", would it make any sense for me to say "Well, that's nice that you think so Dave, but since I'm objective in this, what you say has no bearing." Please note that, in my post, I am referrring to strictly AMERICAN things, so don't try to bring in the UN or the War on Terror or anything on a Global scale, because we're not dealing with that right now & I'm not going to let myself get sidetracked from the discussion at hand.

I realize that you're nicer than most & I appreciate that (like I said earlier). I also know you say a lot of positive things about America & I appreciate that, too (like I said earlier). I'm not speaking in over-arching generalizations that hard to pin down & therefore argue against: I'm speaking about this thread.


6) Really? There are many who tired long ago of listening to your side of the story, you should remember that. A lot of people simply do not bother with Americans anymore for precisely the reason you all so have wonderfully demonstrated right hear. You just dont see reason, you arent open to debate, you wont discuss, because naturally you all know best. Its a Stereotype I spend my whole entire life trying to eradicate in the minds of people I work with. If it wasnt a labour of Love and nostalgia you wouldnt be so lucky. The fact is, your probably dont care.
I'm slightly confused by this number. Are you questioning my sincerity based on the dislike the rest of the world has towards Americans or based on apathy from other forumites, or what? Since you're not directly responded to the comment you cited, I'm not sure how you would like me to reply. If you could clarify whether this is supposed to be substantive or simply hurtful (by telling me how universally disliked I am), then I'll gladly give you my thoughts on this point, as well.

7) you actually mean a native citizen, because I could arrive on your shores, and become naturalized, then I would be just as much a citizen as you. Thats not, of course what your saying.
Yes, you're absolutely right. Thank you for making sure that my meaning was clear. What I don't understand is, if you understood exactly what I did, and didn't, mean, then why bother to address that at all. I mean, you knew what I meant & don't disagree with it, apparently, so were you just try to pick at a thread in attempt to make me seem foolish for not being verbose enough?
No I am not, and never will be American. Sometimes it makes me sad, sometimes it is a relief
To be honest, I have the same feelings about the fact that I am an American. I'm sad that the rest of the world hates us, as you seem so intent on hammering into our heads, but then again I'd still rather live here than anywhere else, so I'm relieved.

8) when you try and defend someone like that, you make them look weak like they cant defend themselves and you shouldnt do it. So an American, who is currently pissed off with me, has told me in the past. I have no problem with what DonnaMarie put at all...if she found offense, then I'm reasonably sure she could handle me
I wasn't defending Donna (I hope she doesn't think I was, anyhow, I don't want that psycho Sicilian pissed at me! ), I was, as I stated, trying to help you by making you aware of a piece of information that you apparently didn't know about. Instead of accepting this new fact into your understanding of my country, you decided to attack me with "proof" that your objective (i.e. mis-informed) view was the correct one. I then preceded to defend myself.

Donna, if you do think I've overstepped by bounds by "defending" you, then I am sorry & will gladly leave this be.


9) I am caring less and less about what people think of me. What is the point. People are never happy and continually trying to drag you down until you just look false. I'm not perfect, I have my flaws, I know what they are. Those who are close to me know and love me for who I am. The rest doesnt matter. One cant be all things to all people. Some people will find my arrogant, well I admit I am very opinionated and vocal and judgemental. Some people will find me pompous, even in Britian my accent makes me sound stuck up. So what. If you dont know me better then that, I shouldnt waste my time trying to convince you, or worse, pandering and faking a response. There is no point. You will decide for yourself, and your decision is only an opinion, and if you are not a close friend, it wont worry me.
I don't think you're arrogant, Dave & I never said that I do. I asked if you could see how it could be interpreted that way. I'm not telling you to pander, I'm telling you that there are some subjects in which you are not an expert. I'm aware that you know a great deal more about our culture than the average Englishman & most likely a great deal more than your circle of friends/family/co-workers/acquaintances/etc., but you need to be humble enough to realize that you don't know more about our culture than we do. This whole tired argument could have been completely, 100% avoided, had you simply said "O really Ben, that's how Americans do it? Cool, well here in England, we..." That's the difference I'm trying to impress on you: I'll gladly read about how it's celebrated in England/Europe & learn about your culture, but it's rude when you assume to know more about my culture than I do.
I'm really not trying to turn this into some long, drawn out power-struggle, so allow me to sum up my only position in this thread. This is the sticking point which spawned the myriad of mini-fights Dave itemized above, so allow me to simplify this whole thing by "re-starting" this. Pretend, if you will, that the 610th post in this thread reads as follows:

Quote:
Actually, Dave, American culture doesn't follow a liturgical calender when it comes to our Christmas season. We begin celebrating Thanksgiving weekend & stop at New Years. This is how we do it in our country, regardless of what you think we should do or what you think we actually do. If you want to inform us on how England & the rest of the EU celebrate, please do so.
P.S. I did my best to remain calm while writing this & I intend for none of my comments to be mean/hurtful/cruel/etc. If it seems as though any of my comments are mean/hurtful/cruel/etc., I apologize for the unintended tone they have. I did my best to play nice.
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  #615  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:20 PM
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P.S. I did my best to remain calm while writing this & I intend for none of my comments to be mean/hurtful/cruel/etc. If it seems as though any of my comments are mean/hurtful/cruel/etc., I apologize for the unintended tone they have. I did my best to play nice.
I love you Ben

I'm not well tonight sorry if I'm being a bit pissy...I'm fighting a war inside my head at the moment. I'll explain in a PM
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  #616  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:38 PM
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I love you Ben

I'm not well tonight sorry if I'm being a bit pissy...I'm fighting a war inside my head at the moment. I'll explain in a PM
It's cool.
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  #617  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:43 PM
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Wow............this is the "posting an image" thread?!



Dave.............thank GOD you don't live across the street from me! I still have a wreath up.............

Ben............psycho?!?!? Really?!?!? PSYCHO Sicilian?!?

Who told you my street name?!?!?
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  #618  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:45 PM
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Wow............this is the "posting an image" thread?!



Dave.............thank GOD you don't live across the street from me! I still have a wreath up.............

Ben............psycho?!?!? Really?!?!? PSYCHO Sicilian?!?

Who told you my street name?!?!?
What can I say? I like alliteration!
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:40 AM
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thank GOD you don't live across the street from me! I still have a wreath up.............
I keep Christmas lights up on my porch all year. It helps me find my house at night.
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  #620  
Old 02-16-2010, 04:36 PM
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I keep Christmas lights up on my porch all year. It helps me find my house at night.
It's a lot easier to recognize lights that street numbers when you're plastered, ain't it?
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