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  #31  
Old 03-24-2009, 03:36 PM
Moose
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Originally Posted by Melissa Villaseņor
I personally think abortion/plan B/ anything that stops a babys life from the moment it was conceived is pure MURDER....
Fertilized eggs often don't implant, for many different reasons. I realize it's a touchy subject but I try to look at it subjectively.
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  #32  
Old 03-24-2009, 04:10 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by NateR
I understand how you would sympathize with the woman, but why not sympathize with the unborn child? What exactly did the baby do to deserve being put to death?

A woman is not completely helpless in the crime of rape. She can take self-defense courses, carry a gun or just be careful where she goes at night. However, that unborn baby is 100% completely helpless. It can't defend itself, can't speak on it's own behalf and that child's "freedom of choice" isn't even considered in the matter of abortion (which is what makes the phrase "freedom of choice" such a sick joke when applied to abortion).

So I would default towards protecting the GOD-given rights of the one person in this situation would cannot protect themselves: the unborn baby.

Sure, having to carry a baby conceived in rape would be traumatic, but it's not a guarantee of an unhappy life. Pat Robertson, the founder of the 700 Club, was conceived when his mother was raped. So the child has just as much potential for success as any human being born under different circumstances.
Nathan, Dawn and Chris, I agree that life begins at conception and babies cannot protect themselves so we have to protect them. God tells us there are only two paths, the broad and the narrow. We choose which path we follow.

I'm not arguing or debating the issue of abortion, for or against. When I said if only God did all the deciding, as opposed to man, I meant this would not be an issue because there would be no rape, therefore, no abortion, no loss of life. But God lets us choose which path we take and it's obvious which path the rapist takes.

When I said, "my human person", I meant human as in this earth, born into sin, you know, of the flesh that makes us weak... And, by mercy and compassion, I was not saying, kill the child to spare the woman. I was saying, as a human, with my human heart and mind, I wish there was a way to spare the woman as well as the child.

I asked the ? and wanted to know how y'all felt and I appreciate your honesty. Thank you!
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  #33  
Old 03-24-2009, 04:45 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by atomdanger
and if your daughter / wife / mother were raped....

would you tell her to have the baby and give it up for adoption? Or keep it?
doubtful.
I already answered that in an earlier post. We would keep the baby and raise it for our own. In fact we are helping a very close friend do that now. She was raped and we encouraged her to keep it and she is not glad she did.
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  #34  
Old 03-24-2009, 04:49 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by Bonnie
In your previous post, you say, "...the only life that will be taken is the rapist."

In this post, "...murder is not an option." You do admit to a "double standard".

And then, "Let God decide."

If only God were doing all the deciding, hmmm...and not man in all his wisdom. But, God did decide and chose to give man free will. Free will to choose the path of righteousness or not, right from wrong.

I know it isn't your intent to make it all sound so "simple" as to "the girl can give it up for adoption" (at least I hope you realize it isn't that simple). Should a child have the right to life and not suffer for the sins of it's father--yes and yes, in a perfect world. But, the world isn't perfect because man isn't perfect.

In a way, it wasn't fair to ask the ? of you men because you are men. And even though men can be raped and suffer all the mental/emotional anguish a woman can from the act, he can't, however, get pregnant from rape and suffer the even greater emotional turmoil and mental anguish of all that entails for a woman let alone a child of rape.

I don't agree with them giving this pill to girls as a means of birth control, but I have to say, as a woman, I am torn when it comes to rape and/or incest. Torn because I know God would not approve of abortion no matter how it came about, and a child should have the right to life. On the other hand, my "human" person, the woman, wants their to be mercy and compassion for the woman put in such a predicament.
Just because we cna;t get pregnant does not mean we have no feelings in the issues. Especially when it is a person close to us. As i have said I have 2 daughters. I have also had some close friends who has gone through it as well so I am not dealing in hypotheticals. No child deserves to die because of the sins of the father. And no child should be given pills w/o parents involvement.
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  #35  
Old 03-24-2009, 04:54 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by Bonnie
Nathan, Dawn and Chris, I agree that life begins at conception and babies cannot protect themselves so we have to protect them. God tells us there are only two paths, the broad and the narrow. We choose which path we follow.

I'm not arguing or debating the issue of abortion, for or against. When I said if only God did all the deciding, as opposed to man, I meant this would not be an issue because there would be no rape, therefore, no abortion, no loss of life. But God lets us choose which path we take and it's obvious which path the rapist takes.

When I said, "my human person", I meant human as in this earth, born into sin, you know, of the flesh that makes us weak... And, by mercy and compassion, I was not saying, kill the child to spare the woman. I was saying, as a human, with my human heart and mind, I wish there was a way to spare the woman as well as the child.

I asked the ? and wanted to know how y'all felt and I appreciate your honesty. Thank you!
Sadly because of sin we cannot stop rape, but we should not compund the problem by adding murder. Scripture has guidenece on this and other similar issues and this is why I feel so strongly. In fact I have even help in my old state the squashing of the mandatroy Gardisl shots to girls because that takes away a parents rights. The typical excuse is what if your daughter is raped. I say I do nto deal in what if but in the relaity that I sere an awesome God who does not get off the throne because mankinf is faliable. As long as we are in the flesh bad things will happen. Our job is to try an avoid being a part of it.
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  #36  
Old 03-24-2009, 04:56 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris F
I already answered that in an earlier post. We would keep the baby and raise it for our own. In fact we are helping a very close friend do that now. She was raped and we encouraged her to keep it and she is not glad she did.
Is this Pastor Chris?

How are you counseling her to see her through this. Has she had the baby yet? What about adoption?

How would you answer the invarible ?s from a child regarding his/her conception/birth so that it doesn't suffer the "sin" of the father?

I know these are tough ?s I'm asking, but it's a tough issue all the way around.
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  #37  
Old 03-24-2009, 05:14 PM
Miss Foxy
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Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE
Lets break down the Liberal Government mentality! It goes like this, Parents YOU are responsible for your Kids but YOU have NO ATHOURITY over them! That is reserved for US! The almighty all knowing Gubment who is replacing your God!
Your kidding me right?
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  #38  
Old 03-24-2009, 05:17 PM
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NateR NateR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose
Fertilized eggs often don't implant, for many different reasons. I realize it's a touchy subject but I try to look at it subjectively.
Well, when you look at it subjectively, then you should see that not teaching children to be responsible for their actions is the root of the problem. Giving them yet another "easy out" is not going to just suddenly make them more responsible in the area of pre-marital sex. In fact, it will make sex more consequence free and kids will become more irresponsible than ever.

Finding easier ways for mothers to murder their babies is not the answer to this problem.
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  #39  
Old 03-24-2009, 05:26 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris F
Sadly because of sin we cannot stop rape, but we should not compund the problem by adding murder. Scripture has guidenece on this and other similar issues and this is why I feel so strongly. In fact I have even help in my old state the squashing of the mandatroy Gardisl shots to girls because that takes away a parents rights. The typical excuse is what if your daughter is raped. I say I do nto deal in what if but in the relaity that I sere an awesome God who does not get off the throne because mankinf is faliable. As long as we are in the flesh bad things will happen. Our job is to try an avoid being a part of it.
You sounded so "hard" when you first responded to my ?; I didn't see any regard or compassion for the "woman". I know abortion is not the answer, but my heart still weeps for the woman who has suffered rape and then finds she is pregnant not through any act of love but one born of violence against her.

I have all the respect for you in helping women who have been through this. I pray for God to give you strength and courage, patience and compassion in guiding these women to make the right decisions for themselves and the babies. I think the problem is these women are going to have a hard time disassociating and separating their feelings of anger and grief over what happened to them from the baby which is a direct result of that.

God Bless!
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  #40  
Old 03-24-2009, 05:33 PM
bradwright
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a plan B pill can not terminate a pregnancy,
it will only stop fertilization from occurring,
so to say this is a murder of an unborn child is a bit of a stretch,

if you truly believe that, then you must also give consideration that masturbation is a form of murder,unless your at a fertility clinic that is.
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