Transgender gets thumbs up to compete for Miss Universe

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Max

I agree with this. No one watches these shows, in fact I wouldnt know who Miss USA was if I ran her over with my car. If the he-she wants to do it I say more power to it. Its not like the winner of Miss Universe gets to do anything important anyway.

She would probably do the world just as much good under your tires anyway.

[County Mike]

Originally Posted by VCURamFan

Ummm, gonna have to call BS on this. I don't think society created penises & vaginas.

(side note: why is Google Chrome OK with plural male genitalia, but freaks out when I mention plural female genitalia? )

Apparently Google Chrome likes dick.

[VCURamFan]

Originally Posted by County Mike

Apparently Google Chrome likes dick.

And lots of 'em...

[Max]

Originally Posted by VCURamFan

Ummm, gonna have to call BS on this. I don't think society created penises & vaginas.

Thats sex, gender is different. Gender deals with thigs such as masculine and feminine attributes, gender roles and gender norms. You will never hear a feminist say they are a sexless but you will often times hear them say they are genderless. What they mean is they dont conform to the typical standards that society has set for the specific genders.

[PRShrek]

Originally Posted by Max

Thats sex, gender is different. Gender deals with thigs such as masculine and feminine attributes, gender roles and gender norms. You will never hear a feminist say they are a sexless but you will often times hear them say they are genderless. What they mean is they dont conform to the typical standards that society has set for the specific genders.

Bees and lions have gender attributes and norms, are you saying they are conforming to our society’s views, or are you saying that have independently evolved an artificial construct? Or perhaps, like morality, declaring ourselves ‘free’ of it doesn’t do what we think it does.

[Max]

Originally Posted by PRShrek

Bees and lions have gender attributes and norms, are you saying they are conforming to our society’s views, or are you saying that have independently evolved an artificial construct? Or perhaps, like morality, declaring ourselves ‘free’ of it doesn’t do what we think it does.

Thats true they do, in lions the male is the head of the Pride in bees the queen is the head of the hive. So the two species you gave me heve different gender roles for who is in charge. Their society has determinded who is in charge, also animals dont think like us. The gender roles in our society used to be that women stayed at home and watched the house men went out and worked. That has changed now and women working is a normal thing. Women could never work in the factories, then WWII happened. A women doctor and a male nurse used to be against gender norms, now not so much. In the Chambri culture it is the women who fish for food and do the bartering for their families, this is something that most people would consider the role of a man. Gender roles and norms change over time, sex does not.

[VCURamFan]

For those of you who haven't seen a pic of this guy, here's a shot of him during the swimwear contest:

[County Mike]

Hahaha

[PRShrek]

Originally Posted by Max

in lions the male is the head of the Pride in bees the queen is the head of the hive.

Thanks for clearing that up, but the point we were discussing was:

Originally Posted by Max

gender is a society created thing

Different cultures view gender differently, that’s true, but the intellectual blunder is to assume that changing your opinion about something changes the thing itself. Existentialism is a philosophy, not a theory.

[Max]

Originally Posted by PRShrek

Different cultures view gender differently, that’s true, but the intellectual blunder is to assume that changing your opinion about something changes the thing itself.

But in the case of gender changing your opinion does in fact change the thing it self. What is considered normal for a certain gender is defined by the society in which that person lives. The gender roles for women have changed over the past 50 years simple because peoples views on what is acceptable for women to do has changed. There for the fact that peoples opinions have changed means that the thing itself (gender roles) has changed.

Morality is the same way in fact. Different cultures will have different views on what is right and wrong. There will be some basic overlapping beliefs but others will be different. Some people feel the death penalty is immoral other see nothing wrong with it. Different people have different moral compasses, as do different societies.