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  #41  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:08 PM
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Wrong. They don't destroy healthy eggs. They only take a few and if they are strong enough to survive procedure they are implanted. The life span in Petri dish is 3 days fresh/5 if frozen blast.The eggs are not fully fertilized they would be incapable of living in the dish. They have to be implanted and cling to the wall of the uterus to grow with help from Estrogen/Progesterone.
I thought they took several, fertilized them all, and then inplanted the best one.

meaning, rejecting the others

I'm not talking about them distroying eggs...im talking about them distroying fertilized eggs surpluss to requirements.

and they have to be fully fertilized before going to gestate...what do you mean by "not fully fertilized" either they have all the genetic code of a new born, or there is just an egg
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  #42  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:14 PM
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I thought they took several, fertilized them all, and then inplanted the best one.

meaning, rejecting the others

I'm not talking about them distroying eggs...im talking about them distroying fertilized eggs surpluss to requirements.

and they have to be fully fertilized before going to gestate...what do you mean by "not fully fertilized" either they have all the genetic code of a new born, or there is just an egg
They are not viable without the hormones. When they are implanted on the wall they need the hormones to grow.. Upon conception in a natural pregnancy the womans body starts creating hormones immediately.
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  #43  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:19 PM
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Eggs are taken to a lab, and fertilized by hand...the vast majority of eggs and sperm are then distroyed and one or two inplanted into the womb.

Its the art of "creating" a baby...and it creates a lot of unwanted fertilized eggs....just coz they are forced into fertilization in a lab, doesnt take away from what they are.

That is not the system he created....Yes its only used for Mothers who cant conceive...but does that really matter??

My point is...if you are really going to be hardline about this, then you must also wipe out any notion of IVF and/or abortion. Its no use saying that one way is wrong because its against the natural order...and not saying that ALL things outside that order are wrong also. Course that becomes a bit hard when you think of the women dying to have children but not being able to conceive...
You should already know that I am against abortion under ANY circumstance.

As for in vitro fertilization, I would agree that disposing of fertilized eggs is the same as abortion. You are killing a human being. (EDIT: after reading Miss Foxy's post, I'm probably wrong on this one.)

However, disposing of unfertilized eggs is not abortion since it does not carry a completed strand of human DNA, so it is even less "human" than all of those hair and skin cells that you wash down the shower drain on a (hopefully) daily basis.

Also in vitro fertilization is simply taking the system that GOD designed and making it happen outside of the womb. It's still using the mechanisms that GOD put in place (since the scientists aren't actually stitching the DNA together by hand). But, even if it was something completely different than the system GOD designed, GOD still designed the brains the scientists used to create the system, so He still deserves the credit.
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  #44  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:20 PM
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They are not viable without the hormones. When they are implanted on the wall they need the hormones to grow.. Upon conception in a natural pregnancy the womans body starts creating hormones immediately.
I did not know that, so a fertilized egg inside a test tube is not considered a viable embryo. Thanks for the information.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:21 PM
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They are not viable without the hormones. When they are implanted on the wall they need the hormones to grow.. Upon conception in a natural pregnancy the womans body starts creating hormones immediately.
What your saying is, without Hormones they would die naturally.

But for those who believe that life occures at the moment of Fertilization...they are alive. Even if they die seconds later.

Babies are not viable if you dont feed them either...that doesnt make them any less alive for the period up until they time they expire.

See in GODs world Fertilization NEVER takes place without those hormones (as you point out) Simply not having the hormones should not detract from the fact life has been created, and then, left to die.

I know that this means some people can never have children, but have we stopped to consider if that might not be GODs will also? You cant condemn Abortion without condeming IVF if you believe that life begins at the moment of conception.

Sometimes I think the question we should ask ourselves as a race, is not "CAN WE..." but "SHOULD WE..."
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  #46  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:24 PM
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why do I bring this up here?

Because its easy to be black and white on an issue like Gender.

But try telling a loving, would-be parent...that they would be sinning if they used IVF.

That changes you from being black and white...to suddenly, seemingly being callous.

If we are to be fundemental...we must be fundemental across the whole board.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:26 PM
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But, even if it was something completely different than the system GOD designed, GOD still designed the brains the scientists used to create the system, so He still deserves the credit.
Dangerous Argument.

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  #48  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:31 PM
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What your saying is, without Hormones they would die naturally.

But for those who believe that life occures at the moment of Fertilization...they are alive. Even if they die seconds later.

Babies are not viable if you dont feed them either...that doesnt make them any less alive for the period up until they time they expire.

See in GODs world Fertilization NEVER takes place without those hormones (as you point out) Simply not having the hormones should not detract from the fact life has been created, and then, left to die.

I know that this means some people can never have children, but have we stopped to consider if that might not be GODs will also? You cant condemn Abortion without condeming IVF if you believe that life begins at the moment of conception.

Sometimes I think the question we should ask ourselves as a race, is not "CAN WE..." but "SHOULD WE..."
Genetically, a fertilized egg is identical to an adult human at the moment of fertilization. That means that it has a completed, unique DNA structure and has all of the information it will ever need to form into a human being.

I don't really know enough about in vitro to get dogmatic about this, however. I'm sure there are ways that it can be conducted ethically, without disposing of fertilized human eggs.
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  #49  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:32 PM
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why do I bring this up here?

Because its easy to be black and white on an issue like Gender.

But try telling a loving, would-be parent...that they would be sinning if they used IVF.

That changes you from being black and white...to suddenly, seemingly being callous.

If we are to be fundemental...we must be fundemental across the whole board.
I don't see how one applies to the other.
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  #50  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:44 PM
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I don't see how one applies to the other.
Then look at the answer you gave to me above

You will condemn gays...but stop short of condemning IVF on the grounds of probable abortion
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