Christmas Should protestant Christians Celebrate?

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Neezar

had in me.

It is literally breaking my heart. I wished that I could have done it differently.

I think you are a good parent

We can only do our best...and I have absolutely no doubt that you always try your hardest to do your best as a parent.

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Chris F

I got you and I think we agree more than we disagree on this. I am in no way advocating willful sin. Paul is clear Grace is not a ticket to sin. But what I am saying is grace will cover a lie to protect the Jews hiding in your basement from the Nazis etc etc. 1 John 1:8-9 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Originally Posted by Neezar
So do you confess your sin of lying to your children about Santa?

Terrible comparison with the lying to protect a life! What good are you creating in lying to your children about Santa? Who or what purpose is it truly benefiting? Straw man Easy answer.
Wished I had thought of it first. lol

To carefully plan and perpretrate the fraud of Santa, what in and of that would qualify in receiving grace? Grace is not something we can qualify for. What is your point here
You are the one who was giving examples of what grace would "cover". Why didn't you just state that grace would cover ALL sins, even clearly intentional ones....repeated yearly.

And the rest?! Goodness gracious!!! I have never heard such loose arguments from you. Probably becasue they do not have my typical sledge hammer approach. I am letting those who prefer to perpetuate this to do so. Agree to disagree if you will. And for the last 5 years I rarely did that.
I'm glad we agree on this. Why don't you pave the way for all sins then? Why a particular pardon for this one?


Is the above a free pass on sin or lying? Why did you even post this? No one here is claiming to be without sin. Are you saying that someone who has sinned can not discern the word of God and recognize something that they perceive to be a sin ? Especially one as fundamental as lying.Because it is scripture and it pertains to the discussion. In context of the complete bible you would know better that there is no free pass to sin as Paul made clear in Romans. I think you are either trying to push my buttons to see the old me or you are just misunderstanding my point all together.
Then please tell me why you used those scriptures in what seemed to be an argument to
" let those who prefer to perpetuate this to do so". (which seems to appear to say 'to do so' without guilt or to somehow soften the sin')



Oh wait! We have saved the best for last.



Well. There you go. That is simple enough. If this covers my blantant lies then it should cover much, much more. I shall just do as I please from now on, confess my sins and, "WAALAA! HEAVEN HERE I COME!"No isn;t that the biggest strawman you ever did. Not my point at all and you can twist my words all you like but the fact is you are wrong about my view and are speaking out of your rear on this one.

Then what was your point with this particular scripture:

Oh, please....You sure seem to be trying to justify it!

Okay. I will go with blue then.

Originally Posted by Neezar

You are right in that with me, Bon. I've even read comments on here about it in years before and just dismissed it as unimportant. However, before last Christmas (2010) my son got in the car one day and asked if santa was real. My younger son was in the car, also. I said "Of course. Why do you ask?" Well there were older (cool kids, i'm sure) at the daycare that day who told him that santa wasn't real. He said, "Are you sure, Mommy? Tell me the truth." Knowing that Jagger can't stand to be bested at anything, and that my younger son was silent and wide eyed waiting on my answer....Well, I had just told him santa was real. I froze. Jag says, "Well, Mommy, is he real?" I told him that I could not prove that santa was real and that those boys couldn't prove he wasn't. I told him that all that matters is that if you believe in him in your heart. I diverted to what is supposed to be the most important about Christmas anyway. And ended with, "I believe." I left it at that. I now regret my cop out.

After Christmas that year, my mom asked me where I had bought a certain present that the kids had. I answered without thinking. My boy was standing there and looked at me with a funny look in his eyes and said, "No, Mommy! Santa brought this. You didn't buy it."

Well, Christmas was over and out of sight, out of mind, right? Well this year after Christmas my sister asked me where I got a camo camping tent for the boys. Jagger was standing there and rushed to yell, "Mommy didn't get this! Santa did!" And he cut me a sideways glance that defied me to dispute this.

Jagger trusted me over those cool kids. I have no doubt that he will get over it when he finds out the truth. But it is going to hurt him. And it is going to damage that trust he had in me.

It is literally breaking my heart. I wished that I could have done it differently.

I agree with Dave none of this makes you a bad parent. The fact you regret it shows a contrite spirit and I think you heart was right and you obviously were convicted and knowing you from what I read here you made it right. You should not linger on it and rejoice God is mercy and grace.

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

I think you are a good parent

We can only do our best...and I have absolutely no doubt that you always try your hardest to do your best as a parent.

Well a year ago, I would have argued that the santa myth was harmless. Now, do I feel like I have sinned against my son? Yes. I do. I know God will forgive me. I have security in that grace. But what about my child? He is only human after all.


(And he's not a hypersensitive douche either. )


And some people wonder why kids are more influenced by their peers than their parents.

Originally Posted by Neezar

Okay. I will go with blue then.

Now I have no clue how to quote the quoted quote and use a differnt color. But I'll say this. The bible says to work out ones own salvation with fear and trembling. and The bible gives each parent the charge over their own kids. So I am speaking for myself alone and my point in the other realm was as a minister people can sometimes think God can never forgive them for what they did. Fact is lying to your kids about Santa in so the unpardonable sin. Rejection of Christ is. Sin is sin are we are all guilty. And when we are guilty of one we are guilty of all. So weather intentional or not the fact is we are sinful and must always repent when convicted thus the reason I quoted 1 John 1:9 Paul even tells us in Romans 7:15 "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate". and in verse 19 he says "For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want." Book of James says this "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." So really it goes back to intentions and a matter of the heart. Are you trying to be deceptive? Or are you allowing your kids to pretend in a realm of fantasy? That is a choice each parent must deal with and it is their cross to bare. I personally choose not to lie to my kids because I felt it was wrong. I cannot make that choice for others. That is my point I hope that explained it better.

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Chris F

Now I have no clue how to quote the quoted quote and use a differnt color. But I'll say this. The bible says to work out ones own salvation with fear and trembling. and The bible gives each parent the charge over their own kids. So I am speaking for myself alone and my point in the other realm was as a minister people can sometimes think God can never forgive them for what they did. Fact is lying to your kids about Santa in so the unpardonable sin. Rejection of Christ is. Sin is sin are we are all guilty. And when we are guilty of one we are guilty of all. So weather intentional or not the fact is we are sinful and must always repent when convicted thus the reason I quoted 1 John 1:9 Paul even tells us in Romans 7:15 "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate". and in verse 19 he says "For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want." Book of James says this "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." So really it goes back to intentions and a matter of the heart. Are you trying to be deceptive? Or are you allowing your kids to pretend in a realm of fantasy? That is a choice each parent must deal with and it is their cross to bare. I personally choose not to lie to my kids because I felt it was wrong. I cannot make that choice for others. That is my point I hope that explained it better.

Yes. You did explain it better.


Your first post was still crap though.

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Chris F

Now I have no clue how to quote the quoted quote and use a differnt color.

I know, me too. I was worried that you would pull it off though and I would have to try all that again.



(Now I know your weakness! I must out-quote and out-color code you. )

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by Neezar

You are right in that with me, Bon. I've even read comments on here about it in years before and just dismissed it as unimportant. However, before last Christmas (2010) my son got in the car one day and asked if santa was real. My younger son was in the car, also. I said "Of course. Why do you ask?" Well there were older (cool kids, i'm sure) at the daycare that day who told him that santa wasn't real. He said, "Are you sure, Mommy? Tell me the truth." Knowing that Jagger can't stand to be bested at anything, and that my younger son was silent and wide eyed waiting on my answer....Well, I had just told him santa was real. I froze. Jag says, "Well, Mommy, is he real?" I told him that I could not prove that santa was real and that those boys couldn't prove he wasn't. I told him that all that matters is that if you believe in him in your heart. I diverted to what is supposed to be the most important about Christmas anyway. And ended with, "I believe." I left it at that. I now regret my cop out.

After Christmas that year, my mom asked me where I had bought a certain present that the kids had. I answered without thinking. My boy was standing there and looked at me with a funny look in his eyes and said, "No, Mommy! Santa brought this. You didn't buy it."

Well, Christmas was over and out of sight, out of mind, right? Well this year after Christmas my sister asked me where I got a camo camping tent for the boys. Jagger was standing there and rushed to yell, "Mommy didn't get this! Santa did!" And he cut me a sideways glance that defied me to dispute this.

Jagger trusted me over those cool kids. I have no doubt that he will get over it when he finds out the truth. But it is going to hurt him. And it is going to damage that trust he had in me.

It is literally breaking my heart. I wished that I could have done it differently.

My heart is breaking for you, Neezy, reading that. Trust is a priceless gift children give us freely when they're young so I understand how this is breaking your heart.

Thank you for sharing that with us. It really brings it home.

Originally Posted by Neezar

Yes. You did explain it better.


Your first post was still crap though.

well I assumed you read the other post I made earlier. Guess I should not have assumed.

Originally Posted by Neezar

I know, me too. I was worried that you would pull it off though and I would have to try all that again.



(Now I know your weakness! I must out-quote and out-color code you. )

You will win every time. I know nothing about computer stuff. Brett and others have tried to explain it to me but I just do not get it.