Does anyone know about the Pearls?

[flo]

Originally Posted by Dethbob

I remember plenty of wooden spoons and 'boards of education' from my childhood and don't feel that I am any worse for it. However I do not remember having learned anything from any particular spanking, other than to stay the heck away from Mom when she's in a mood. I think if a strong method of discipline is called for and spanking is applied in a thoughtful way it can be very effective, but if it is applied aventure it becomes just more crap kids have to deal with.

It is a different matter entirely for a ‘Man of God’ to instruct people, who are desperately seeking advice, to develop a habit of inflicting pain without mercy on defenseless little ones. Now I’ll concede that I have not read the book and do not know much about the Pearls, but out of context or not those quotes do not sound Biblical to me. I also understand that the media is not on our side, and they certainly don’t need the help of ‘Christians’ who seem to embody and confirm the worst possible caricatures of Gods people.

Well said, Dethbob, well said.

Originally Posted by NateR

This comment really makes no sense to me in the context of the topic at hand. How are the children "desperately seeking advice"?

... what?

Originally Posted by NateR

Spanking is about punishment for wrongdoing and inflicting pain on children is usually the most effective way to get their undivided attention. The instruction comes from teaching them the lesson that their actions have consequences. There is nothing un-Biblical about that at all:

Proverbs 13:24
He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

This is where that popular saying "spare the rod, spoil the child" comes from, but that phrase is not actually in the Bible. But, as you can see, GOD's verdict on parents who don't discipline their children is a little more severe.

You seem to be under the impression that all spanking is discipline and that there is no discipline without spanking. This is not the case. Like I said before, it is effective if it is used properly, but there are some parents who should not use it at all.

Originally Posted by flo

Well said, Dethbob, well said.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Dethbob

... what?

The topic as I understand it is spanking for the purpose of correction. In that context, children aren't necessarily seeking guidance as they are fleeing from the consequences of their actions. We like to refer to children as innocent, but that is simply not the case. Children enter this world corrupted, sinful and depraved - that's just the sin nature than we are all born with. That's why discipline is such an important part of effective parenting.

However, what really didn't make any sense was the implication of yours that a "man of God" should never inflict pain. I might have misunderstood your comment, because that can't be what you were saying.

Originally Posted by Dethbob

You seem to be under the impression that all spanking is discipline and that there is no discipline without spanking. This is not the case. Like I said before, it is effective if it is used properly, but there are some parents who should not use it at all.

I understand the topic and I agree with your last sentence. I'm talking about spanking as a correctional tool only, not physical abuse - there is a difference. I also understand that not every instance of disobedience or wrongdoing requires a spanking and, at certain age, spanking ceases to be effective.

From the description of spanking in your household as a child, it was clearly not used properly. So I can understand why you are having problems distinguishing physical correction from child abuse; but they are completely separate issues.

Well as a minister and a parent I see nothing wrong with the advice given in it context. The bible is very clear that the sort of punishment qioted was acceptable. In fact the bible was even more brutal than the advice that was given. If you train up your child right to start with you more then likely will never have to resort to this advice. I think so have been indoctrinated by liberalism a little to much. My kids rarely needed a spanking because they knew behaving was smarter than disobedience. I htink the fact they were telling how to avoid hurting the child (what not to use because it may draw blood is wise) But this is one of those events that everyone has an opinion and disagreement is bound to happen. When we were raising kids like they suggested we did not have half the problem we have today. thats my 2 cents and I am sure many will disagree.

[Bonnie]

I agree with Flo, what's wrong with people! I don't believe for a minute this child deserved such "dicipline". If they feel she did, then how much more dicipline do they deserve for her suffering and death!

i got hit like a champ as a kid .... it's easy to spank a kid to show'em who is boss and put fear and consequences on them ... but it is the easy way to parent and a sign of impatience and non-discipline on the parents part ... anyone can hit a kid to scare and hurt them to show them what's right and wrong, but a real good parent who can communicate with their kid shouldn't have to beat their child

[NateR]

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

i got hit like a champ as a kid .... it's easy to spank a kid to show'em who is boss and put fear and consequences on them ... but it is the easy way to parent and a sign of impatience and non-discipline on the parents part ... anyone can hit a kid to scare and hurt them to show them what's right and wrong, but a real good parent who can communicate with their kid shouldn't have to beat their child

NO ONE should beat their child as a form of discipline. We're talking about spanking, which is a completely different topic.

Every child is different and sometimes inflicting pain is the only way to effectively communicate with certain children. It's not about power (although every parent does need to establish themselves as having authority over their children) and it's not about bullying.

I do not have children, but I used to be one and I can honestly say that spanking was extremely effective for me. It was so effective that I got spanked less and less as I got older. I never once felt that my parents enjoyed spanking me and I never felt physically abused or oppressed by them. I was made to understand exactly what behavior I was getting spanked for (lying, stealing, setting things on fire in the living room while my dad took a nap, etc.) and I learned to simply not do the things that got me a spanking. I deserved every single spanking I got as a child and I am thankful to my parents for administering that discipline to me at such a young age.

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

i got hit like a champ as a kid .... it's easy to spank a kid to show'em who is boss and put fear and consequences on them ... but it is the easy way to parent and a sign of impatience and non-discipline on the parents part ... anyone can hit a kid to scare and hurt them to show them what's right and wrong, but a real good parent who can communicate with their kid shouldn't have to beat their child

you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

i got hit like a champ as a kid .... it's easy to spank a kid to show'em who is boss and put fear and consequences on them ... but it is the easy way to parent and a sign of impatience and non-discipline on the parents part ... anyone can hit a kid to scare and hurt them to show them what's right and wrong, but a real good parent who can communicate with their kid shouldn't have to beat their child

Have a child puke down your back at three o’clock in the morning and you will understand how dangerous it is to have a general policy of physically punishing every sign of rebellion, especially if it is founded on the notion that the Lord God is insisting on it and is monitoring all failures to comply.

On the other hand, kids are very crafty and as soon as they figure out that you will only talk, they will run all over you.

There is also the ‘multiple opponent’ factor to consider: In a potentially dangerous situation (traffic, creepy strangers, a crowd kids can get lost in, etc.) one of my three boys will often start acting up. I have to keep an eye on all three, but I can’t do that if one of them is eating up too many compute cycles. In that situation a quick swat is needed to bring the ‘fear and consequences,’ and the communication has to wait for a safer time.

Originally Posted by NateR

I never once felt that my parents enjoyed spanking me and I never felt physically abused or oppressed by them. I was made to understand exactly what behavior I was getting spanked for (lying, stealing, setting things on fire in the living room while my dad took a nap, etc.) and I learned to simply not do the things that got me a spanking. I deserved every single spanking I got as a child and I am thankful to my parents for administering that discipline to me at such a young age.

That sounds like textbook James Dobson to me. I hope I'm coming across like that with my kids.