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Old 09-08-2011, 11:51 PM
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Default American Jobs Act

Not an Obama fan, but I enjoyed his speech about the American Jobs Act. Not sure how many credit cards it will take to cover the proposed $447 billion, but I fully support tax incentives for companies who hire, rebuilding our schools, rebuilding our bridges/roads, preventing teacher layoffs, add'l tax benefits for businesses, and increasing taxes on the super-rich (when a CEO makes 270:1 vs. their workers, somebody is making way too much money and underpaying hard-working people).

Also, nice to actually see him sporting a serious face instead of that ****-eating grin he normally sports. Good stuff Mr. President, good stuff.

The one fault I see is that companies hiring for tax incentives outweighs the cost of the tax incentive unless business can be generated.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:20 AM
Chris F
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The problem is 85% of it is unconstitutional. The federal government has no legal right to fund schools etc etc. Their job is to build interstates, national defense. So it is a bad bill and I would vote NO in a heart beat if I was an elected official.
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:40 PM
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The problem is 85% of it is unconstitutional. The federal government has no legal right to fund schools etc etc. Their job is to build interstates, national defense. So it is a bad bill and I would vote NO in a heart beat if I was an elected official.
Its not unconstitutional for the Federal Government to award Commendations to Businesses who do something to promote their State. The Federal Government is sponcering something within the State to rebuild the state. Thats not the same as the Federal Government creating schools.

Its simply supplying a reward system to the locals to build their own, and presumably to then fund it long term on their own. At least thats how I understood it.

If your State Governments are not good enough to do this sort of thing themselves I'm afraid it falls to the Federal Government to sort it out. The State Governments need to be capable before they take back and excercise full consitutional freedoms...because from what I understand, they have brought this on themselves by becoming to politically subordinate and are now powerless and financially unable to do it themselves.

Schemes like this...or as close to this, should already have been considered and trialed at a State level, initiated by State representatives...if it hasnt, you cant blame Washington for doing it on a national level. At the end of the day whilst your state is in a Union, the Union will always come first, and always be in a position to over-ride...if you dont remain nigh on militant, then you...effectively, become nothing more then a local office of a national administration...and technically speaking...State Governments ARE NOT supposed to be mere extentions of Federal Government...they are supposed to be self regulating, and self governing, and self reliant to as much of a degree as membership of the Union will allow.

Or...they want to quit...and understand, from Washingtons point of view, what True Soverignty means...because Ultimately, its the Federal Government that bears the responsibility...a responsibility that any departing State would suddenly realize...along with all the citizens therein contained
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:27 PM
Chris F
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Its not unconstitutional for the Federal Government to award Commendations to Businesses who do something to promote their State. The Federal Government is sponcering something within the State to rebuild the state. Thats not the same as the Federal Government creating schools.

Its simply supplying a reward system to the locals to build their own, and presumably to then fund it long term on their own. At least thats how I understood it.

If your State Governments are not good enough to do this sort of thing themselves I'm afraid it falls to the Federal Government to sort it out. The State Governments need to be capable before they take back and excercise full consitutional freedoms...because from what I understand, they have brought this on themselves by becoming to politically subordinate and are now powerless and financially unable to do it themselves.

Schemes like this...or as close to this, should already have been considered and trialed at a State level, initiated by State representatives...if it hasnt, you cant blame Washington for doing it on a national level. At the end of the day whilst your state is in a Union, the Union will always come first, and always be in a position to over-ride...if you dont remain nigh on militant, then you...effectively, become nothing more then a local office of a national administration...and technically speaking...State Governments ARE NOT supposed to be mere extentions of Federal Government...they are supposed to be self regulating, and self governing, and self reliant to as much of a degree as membership of the Union will allow.

Or...they want to quit...and understand, from Washingtons point of view, what True Soverignty means...because Ultimately, its the Federal Government that bears the responsibility...a responsibility that any departing State would suddenly realize...along with all the citizens therein contained
With all due respect Dave you aint got a clue on what you are talking about. The US Constitution is not anything like yours and the fact is the feds cannot do what they are doing. Even in Obama's speech he mentioned the fact what they were doing was unconstitutional. He went so far as to call it a "rigid idea about what government could or could not do". We are a republic and the 10th amend still says any law not specified in teh constitution is reserved for the states. Since the only thing specified in the constitution is national defense and trade and commerce with other nations and treaties and infrastructure (roads and such) than it is up to the states. I do not have the time nor the desire to educate you on basic high school American civics. They get away with what they are doing because most Americans are mindless zombies wanting to collect a check from the Uncle Sam and will be happy to sell their freedom for that check.
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:39 PM
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the only thing specified in the constitution is national defense and trade and commerce with other nations and treaties and infrastructure (roads and such) than it is up to the states.
How can that be true? that would leave Congress unable to pass any Acts of Law over any of the States.

Because the above says that the Federal Government is not really a Government, but a collective representation of Each State to the rest of the World.

...with the exception of public transport.

If that was True then how does the Supreme Court Govern? That list includes nothing on crime and punishment...therefore presumably thats entirely State Driven...therefore the Supreme Court would ONLY be an Appeals Court! Is it only an Appeals Court???

The above also does NOT say that States need to contribute financially on a Union level...nor does it give the Federal Government the right to demand anything.

If what your saying is wholly true then Each State should be completely Soverign...AS Soverign as Europe is now. Are you SURE your Federal Government was only supposed to be a looose association of soverign countries???

I thought it was pretty much created...I mean if you look at the history, Union Membership is aspired to the second a piece of land is "annexed" It would seem like the individual States formed specifically so they could become a Union...never conceiving long term self sufficiency...with the exception of Texas....and...Hawaii....and probably Alaska due to geography.

Sorry you dont feel it important to talk to me about this. I listened to some of his ramble about the Jobs Act...I didnt listen to it all, coz he went on, and on, and on, and on...and I got bored So I just told you what I understood of it...it sounds like you might be polar extremes...I dont understand why if what you say is wholly true, the State Governments dont exercise their powers...citizens might be fooled...but politicians in State Governments shouldnt have that excuse...and I cant understand why they would wanted to denude themselves of their powers...unless never had what you make out they did.

sorry for being dumb on the subject Sometimes I think maybe I should not bother to give my opinion or try and understand coz at the heart of it you Americans are actually quite insular. As per usual, I'm an outsider to be dumped when things get serious
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:07 PM
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Tyburn, I think it is admirable that you have the intellectual curiosity to try to understand our form of government. I don't know why Chris F responded to you with that tone.

Hillsdale College is offering a free "Introduction to the Constitution" internet course. It starts in a few days. Here is a link with information and a registration page for this free course: http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/pa...edium=redirect
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:46 PM
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Chris, some of the money that goes to schools is from state and local tax revenues, but the Federal government has been funding public education for decades. The NCLB Act of 2001 for example was another amendment of the Improving America's Schools act of 1994 which was another amendment of the Education Consolidation and Improvement Act of 1981 which was an amendment of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965.

The ESEA Act of 1965 created the following:

Title I—Financial Assistance To Local Educational Agencies For The Education Of Children Of Low-Income Families
Title II—School Library Resources, Textbooks, and other Instructional Materials
Title III—Supplementary Educational Centers and Services
Title IV—Educational Research And Training
Title V—Grants To Strengthen State Departments Of Education
Title VI—General Provisions

Since then, they have gone all the way up to Title X via the NCLB.

Federal education funds are distributed to the SEA (State Education Agency), then to the LEA (Local Education Agency - I.E. "School District"), then to the schools themselves. At least 90% of all funds are spent at the school level. The SEA and LEA can choose to hold back up to 5% of the funds distributed to them (depending on the specifics of the text within each provision). The NCLB is huge and crazy, but there's quite a bit of logic to it when you get into the nitty gritty of it.

Obama has already created a blueprint for the next act and the funding allocated for the programs is somewhat strange, but his requests for FY 2012 are much higher than they have been in the past with regards to education. Where he plans to get the money for this, I have no idea.

Without this Federal funding that has been supporting schools for years, it's likely we would have either been paying for private schools or had a lesser/no education because the entire purpose of the ESEA Act "bill aims to shorten the achievement gaps between students by providing each child with fair and equal opportunities to achieve an exceptional education". Basically, equal education rights for all American citizens came directly as a result of this act. This of course is debatable, but it does provide free elementary and secondary education for all of us.

I keep a close eye on this stuff because I sell library books for a living, so education budgets, where they've been and where they're going are always of interest to me.
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:48 PM
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Tyburn, I think it is admirable that you have the intellectual curiosity to try to understand our form of government. I don't know why Chris F responded to you with that tone.

Yeah, what's up with that, Chris?

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Hillsdale College is offering a free "Introduction to the Constitution" internet course. It starts in a few days. Here is a link with information and a registration page for this free course: http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/pa...edium=redirect
I heard about that this morning when I was listening to Steyn *swoon* and thought it sounded very worthwhile.
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:57 PM
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BTW, here is a synopsis of his fabulous campaign speech, er...jobs plan for any who may have missed it.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:03 PM
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I heard about that this morning when I was listening to Steyn *swoon* and thought it sounded very worthwhile.
I stayed up until 12:30 A.M. last night reading After America. I almost finished (page 332, less than 20 pages left) but fell asleep. It is quite depressing. Should I get a prescription for Zoloft or Prozac?
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