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  #21  
Old 03-16-2009, 04:04 AM
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If they were racing, regardless, there are charges for him partaking in that. It's called to Aquiesce in Racing. Now bring in that he lost control, hit the other car, caused the crash, allegedly intoxicated, etc. Yea, he should be charged. All that information that has been released is definitely probably cause for an arrest.
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  #22  
Old 03-16-2009, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar
Justice = You do the crime = You do the time.

It doesn't matter what ANYONE else around you were doing, does it?

Speeding is breaking the law. Racing is breaking the law. Causing an accident (not really an accident if you ask me - accidents don't happen. Someone just f's up.) is a crime. Leaving the scene of an accident is a crime.

Dave, I am shocked at your opinion here. If you break the law then you should have to pay the price. It doesn't matter that someone else did it to.
I see where he is coming from,
it was more a group of people breaking the law, and the one who lived is going to jail for it.

If mask would have lived would they charge him with speeding and racing?
Maybe... but unlikely.
Maybe wreckless driving.

its like if you and I go rob a house together (extreme example)
and while doing so you get hurt and die, why should I get charged with murder?

Anyhow, I do think he should get charged,
I can just see where dave is coming from
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  #23  
Old 03-16-2009, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger
I see where he is coming from,
it was more a group of people breaking the law, and the one who lived is going to jail for it.

If mask would have lived would they charge him with speeding and racing?
Maybe... but unlikely.
Maybe wreckless driving.

its like if you and I go rob a house together (extreme example)
and while doing so you get hurt and die, why should I get charged with murder?

Anyhow, I do think he should get charged,
I can just see where dave is coming from
That's a completely different situation, though. I mean, in your example, if your partner died because a gun you were carrying accidentally went off & hit him, then yeah, you'd get charged with murder. But if he fell off a ladder around back & broke his back while you were trying the front door, then that's not on you.
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  #24  
Old 03-16-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger
I see where he is coming from,
it was more a group of people breaking the law, and the one who lived is going to jail for it.

If mask would have lived would they charge him with speeding and racing?
Maybe... but unlikely.
Maybe wreckless driving.


its like if you and I go rob a house together (extreme example)
and while doing so you get hurt and die, why should I get charged with murder?

Anyhow, I do think he should get charged,
I can just see where dave is coming from

Exactly!

what if it were the other way round? I hear so many people say what a lovely person he was. I havent worked out if they are saying that just because he's died. But they do make him sound like he was one of the nicest people around. Does a nice, good hearted character race cars....? Break the law...?

What if Mask had been the one to survive...would you be so quick to condemn him for an accident that killed the other guy if he KNEW what he was getting himself in for...if he KNEW it was against the law.

I'm sure you could do him strictly for racing, or speeding, or drinking under the influence...you could possibly do him for death by dangerous driving...but you CANT charge him for Murder if the other guy was a willing participent in the illegal activity.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
Exactly!

what if it were the other way round? I hear so many people say what a lovely person he was. I havent worked out if they are saying that just because he's died. But they do make him sound like he was one of the nicest people around. Does a nice, good hearted character race cars....? Break the law...?

What if Mask had been the one to survive...would you be so quick to condemn him for an accident that killed the other guy if he KNEW what he was getting himself in for...if he KNEW it was against the law.

I'm sure you could do him strictly for racing, or speeding, or drinking under the influence...you could possibly do him for death by dangerous driving...but you CANT charge him for Murder if the other guy was a willing participent in the illegal activity.
It's not proven that Mask was racing (that I've heard). The other guy was drinking and ran into him.
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  #26  
Old 03-16-2009, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llamafighter
It's not proven that Mask was racing (that I've heard). The other guy was drinking and ran into him.
This is why I've asked for clarification.

See, if Mask wasnt racing...then its Murder. If its Murder, the driver of the other car should be executed.

It totally depends on what Mask was doing. How much was he inadvertently culpable for his own death? Not at all, an complete innocent, the other guy deserves death row, completely involved in racing, a tragic accident, then his death shouldnt be attributed in its entirety on the other driver.

its absolutely impreative that we know WHAT Mask was doing in the car. Does anyone know FOR SURE
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  #27  
Old 03-16-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
Exactly!

what if it were the other way round? I hear so many people say what a lovely person he was. I havent worked out if they are saying that just because he's died. But they do make him sound like he was one of the nicest people around. Does a nice, good hearted character race cars....? Break the law...?

What if Mask had been the one to survive...would you be so quick to condemn him for an accident that killed the other guy if he KNEW what he was getting himself in for...if he KNEW it was against the law.

I'm sure you could do him strictly for racing, or speeding, or drinking under the influence...you could possibly do him for death by dangerous driving...but you CANT charge him for Murder if the other guy was a willing participent in the illegal activity.
It isn't murder. It is negligent homicide. A death occurs while someone is being negligent.

If two people are out drinking and have a wreck and the passenger dies the driver gets charged with negligent homicide. Did the passenger knowingly get into the car with a drunk driver? Yes. Dosen't matter though. The driver has to answer for his actions. REGARDLESS of the other parties actions.

Does it seem fair that someone shouldn't be punished for a crime because the other party is unable to be punished due to death?
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2009, 02:39 PM
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: What is "Gross Negligence?" A: Gross negligence is defined as driving without caution and without concern for the safety of others. It means a high level of recklessness. But a charge of "vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence" may not be based merely upon driving under the influence of alcohol. Other facts must be present, for example speeding, racing, running traffic lights, and/or ignoring the advice of others not to drive.

***************


Gross Vehicular Manslaughter While DUI

Gross vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated is the most serious DUI-related offense short of murder. The offense is charged in situations where a driver is DUI, is driving in a highly reckless manner, and the reckless driving causes the death of another person. The penalty for conviction is up to ten years of state prison (per person killed).
If the defendant has had a prior DUI (this guy did) or has a particular reason to know the dangers of drunk driving, the prosecutor may charge second degree murder as well.

Below is an adaptation from the Judicial Council of California's jury instruction on this offense. It defines what a jury must find in order to convict a person of gross vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated:
To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:

1. The defendant drove a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs (in effect, that he was DUI), or that he drove with an excessive Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC);

2. While DUI or driving with an excessive BAC, the defendant also committed a misdemeanor or traffic infraction or otherwise lawful act that might cause death;

3. The defendant committed the misdemeanor or traffic infraction or otherwise lawful act that might cause death with gross negligence;
AND

4. The defendant's gross negligent conduct caused the death of another person.

Gross negligence involves more than ordinary carelessness, inattention, or mistake in judgment. A person acts with gross negligence when:

1. He or she acts in a reckless way that creates a high risk of death or great bodily injury;
AND

2. A reasonable person would have known that acting in that way would create such a risk.
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  #29  
Old 03-16-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
its absolutely impreative that we know WHAT Mask was doing in the car. Does anyone know FOR SURE
Why is that imperative? If we get killed while breaking the law, Dave, does that mean our murderer goes free?
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
This is why I've asked for clarification.

See, if Mask wasnt racing...then its Murder. If its Murder, the driver of the other car should be executed.

It totally depends on what Mask was doing. How much was he inadvertently culpable for his own death? Not at all, an complete innocent, the other guy deserves death row, completely involved in racing, a tragic accident, then his death shouldnt be attributed in its entirety on the other driver.

its absolutely impreative that we know WHAT Mask was doing in the car. Does anyone know FOR SURE
I'm sure his passenger will be able to shed some light on what happened, as well as the other driver.
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