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  #11  
Old 06-06-2011, 06:36 PM
rearnakedchoke
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
GOD.

Don't hit me! I do know what you're saying RNC...I just couldn't help myself! No seriously, GOD will know of course, and that person will know (or should) unless they are terribly confused. But, you're right, no one (human) can know what is truly in someone's heart.

I think an even better question is: Should a believer be taking communion when he/she is knowingly sinning? Of course, I know we are all sinners, but I think y'all know what I mean by "knowingly".
that was kinda my point, but i think you got it ...

as for knowingly sinning ... didn't judas participate in communion knowing he was going to sin? even Jesus knew and still let him partake ... again, i am know where at the level of some people on here when it comes to theology, so half the stuff i say is probably non-sense
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2011, 06:51 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
Maybe a non-believer taking communion will trigger a thought that puts him on the right path. It doesn't hurt to allow them, so why not allow all and hope it helps a message get through to some?

Worst case scenario, nobody changes and you have a little less bread and grape juice.
I see what you're getting at, but I think it would be like "putting the cart before the horse" so to speak. Or maybe a better analogy would be someone hands you a pill and says, "Mike, take this pill, it's going to make your life better." But he doesn't tell you what's in the pill or how it's going to make your life better so you're missing some important pieces there. You see what I mean?

Edit: See Ben's post below--he said it way better and backed it up too!
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Last edited by Bonnie; 06-06-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2011, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
Maybe a non-believer taking communion will trigger a thought that puts him on the right path. It doesn't hurt to allow them, so why not allow all and hope it helps a message get through to some?

Worst case scenario, nobody changes and you have a little less bread and grape juice.
Unfortunately, that's not the case:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 Corinthians 11:23-32
23For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
It is a sin to come to the Lord's Table if you are non-repentant. It's a heart matter between you & God, but there is certainly harm if a non-believer takes communion.
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2011, 06:58 PM
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I have heard 5 arguments on this:

1. If they arent believers then it wont matter anyway. It will only be bread and wine.

2. Who can judge if they are or arent saved?

3. No they cant! Its only for Christians!

4. (like rnc just pointed out) Jesus knew Judas wasnt right, yet he didnt prevent him from taking part.

5. As long as we make it clear that Communion is for Christians in good standing with Christ only, we can let people make their own decisions.

LOL, I have seen Churches split over this topic.
Mark brings some thunder when he initiates a thread.lol
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  #15  
Old 06-06-2011, 07:02 PM
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VCU just posted my next point and included the scripture with it. lol I was just going to give the address and let yall look it up but he is a better person than me I guess. lol

Thanks for your extra effort brother.
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  #16  
Old 06-06-2011, 07:03 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
that was kinda my point, but i think you got it ...

as for knowingly sinning ... didn't judas participate in communion knowing he was going to sin? even Jesus knew and still let him partake ... again, i am know where at the level of some people on here when it comes to theology, so half the stuff i say is probably non-sense
Neither am I.

Did Judas know? I know Jesus knew, and even told Judas he would; but had Judas already decided he was going to sin at the time he took communion? Because if he took communion before that I question that he really "knew". You see what I'm saying?
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
that was kinda my point, but i think you got it ...

as for knowingly sinning ... didn't judas participate in communion knowing he was going to sin? even Jesus knew and still let him partake ... again, i am know where at the level of some people on here when it comes to theology, so half the stuff i say is probably non-sense
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
Neither am I.

Did Judas know? I know Jesus knew, and even told Judas he would; but had Judas already decided he was going to sin at the time he took communion? Because if he took communion before that I question that he really "knew". You see what I'm saying?
But Christ didn't come in judgement & never condemned any "normal" sinners (He only called out the church leaders who had zero excuse for not knowing the scriptures better). When He met the woman at the well, He knew she slept around regularly & was shacked up with her boyfriend, but instead of condemning, He ministered to her. When the Pharisees & Saducees (sp?) brought Him the woman caught in adultery & told Him to stone her (which He "should" have done according to the OT law), He instead showed mercy to her.

Just because Christ knew that Judas would betray Him didn't mean that He was going to force Judas into obediance.
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  #18  
Old 06-06-2011, 07:17 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by VCURamFan View Post
But Christ didn't come in judgement & never condemned any "normal" sinners (He only called out the church leaders who had zero excuse for not knowing the scriptures better). When He met the woman at the well, He knew she slept around regularly & was shacked up with her boyfriend, but instead of condemning, He ministered to her. When the Pharisees & Saducees (sp?) brought Him the woman caught in adultery & told Him to stone her (which He "should" have done according to the OT law), He instead showed mercy to her.

Just because Christ knew that Judas would betray Him didn't mean that He was going to force Judas into obediance.
Christ knew that Judas would betray him, but did Judas know (in his heart and in his mind...had he made the decision to betray Christ) at the time he took communion? That's what I was asking in regards to RNC's post that Judas knowingly sinned and still took communion.
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Last edited by Bonnie; 06-06-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2011, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
Chist knew that Judas would betray him, but did Judas know (in his heart and in his mind...had he made the decision to betray Christ) at the time he took communion? That's what I was asking in regards to RNC's post that Judas knowingly sinned and still took communion.
Ummmmmm...I think so?

Sorry, I can't remember off the top of my head whether or not Judas was already planning to betray Christ, but I believe he was, since Christ went straight from the Last Supper to the Garden of Gethsemane where Judas betrayed Him, but I'm not 100% certain.

Either way, I still believe my previous post is pertinent: it doesn't matter whether or not he was alreayd planning to because even if he was, because Christ did not make a habit of forcing correct behavior on people during His incarnation. This was in stark contract to the practice of the Pharisees & why they had such a hard time believing He was truly the Messiah.
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  #20  
Old 06-06-2011, 07:35 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by VCURamFan View Post
Ummmmmm...I think so?

Sorry, I can't remember off the top of my head whether or not Judas was already planning to betray Christ, but I believe he was, since Christ went straight from the Last Supper to the Garden of Gethsemane where Judas betrayed Him, but I'm not 100% certain.

Either way, I still believe my previous post is pertinent: it doesn't matter whether or not he was alreayd planning to because even if he was, because Christ did not make a habit of forcing correct behavior on people during His incarnation. This was in stark contract to the practice of the Pharisees & why they had such a hard time believing He was truly the Messiah.
Just to make it clear, Ben, I wasn't questioning what you had posted. I was really asking because I didn't know (I thought you probably knew, and it'd be quicker just to ask instead of having to go look it up! )

Like, Rev, I thank you for posting those verses/lines. I appreciate your extra effort too.
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