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Old 05-27-2011, 01:07 AM
KENTUCKYREDBONE
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Default Former Marine killed by swat!

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Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him
Tim Cavanaugh | May 16, 2011

"Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later, please!"

Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about 6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.

Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the stomach and hands.

The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her husband is face- down.

The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is happening!"

A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.

A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.

"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.

The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.

"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.

Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.

The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.

This is from Arizona Daily Star reporter Fernanda Echavarri's effort to piece together the death of Jose Guerena, 26, at the hands of a Pima County, Arizona SWAT team. Guerena, who joined the Marines in 2002 and served two tours in Iraq, was killed just after 9 a.m. May 5. Guerera had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at a local mine when his home was invaded as part of a multi-house crackdown by sheriff's deputies.

Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by. Widow Vanessa Guerena, who hid with her four-year-old son when sheriff's deputies raided the home, fills in detail that has been slow to come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik’s office:

"When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."

The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.

"I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.

The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home.

Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.

Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.

Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.

The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:

A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.

Questions about the official story from Ghost32.


*UPDATE (5/20): Sheriffs: Slain Jose Guerena Linked to "Home-Invasion Crew"
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:00 PM
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http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/ma...two-tours-in-i
Reason Magazine•reason.org
•reason.com
•reason.tv
•donate
•••••Subscribe PrintE-ReaderAndroid AppiPhone AppReason E-Mail ListsReason StuffSubscriber ServicesShare Reason on FacebookReason on TwitterReason on YoutubeReason RSSAbout AboutContactPrivacyReason FoundationStaff StaffContributorsArchives ArchivesPrint IssuesCover GalleryHit & Run BlogBrickbatsTopics Poll Feeds PodcastsRSSEventsAdvertiseDonate
Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him
Tim Cavanaugh | May 16, 2011

"Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later, please!"

Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about 6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.

Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the stomach and hands.

The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her husband is face- down.

The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is happening!"

A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.

A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.

"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.

The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.

"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.

Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.

The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.

This is from Arizona Daily Star reporter Fernanda Echavarri's effort to piece together the death of Jose Guerena, 26, at the hands of a Pima County, Arizona SWAT team. Guerena, who joined the Marines in 2002 and served two tours in Iraq, was killed just after 9 a.m. May 5. Guerera had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at a local mine when his home was invaded as part of a multi-house crackdown by sheriff's deputies.

Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by. Widow Vanessa Guerena, who hid with her four-year-old son when sheriff's deputies raided the home, fills in detail that has been slow to come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik’s office:

"When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."

The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.

"I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.

The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home.

Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.

Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.

Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.

The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:

A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.

Questions about the official story from Ghost32.


*UPDATE (5/20): Sheriffs: Slain Jose Guerena Linked to "Home-Invasion Crew"


I hate writers that try to sensationalize an event.. using words to create an inflamatory enviorment...

The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:


Yes, SWAT is a paralilitary force.. but many consider the boyscouts paramilitary.. using paramilitary.. is poor writing, to get readers worked up..

something else to consider....

he was "alleged" to have been holding a weapon.. well.. if he wasn't holding it.. there would have been no reason to shoot him..

The "deadly group panic" was not caused by the police.. but rather they guy with the rifle...

"containing a woman and a toddler".. I guess it's a good thing the gun(s) and the toddler were not in the same room.. BTW.. 5 year old "toddler"???

Does ANYONE think it's a good idea to carry a rifle when the cops are breaking into your home??

CNNs version is a little more cut and dried.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:07 PM
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As many good marines/sailors/soldiers/airmen there are also a lot of bad ones so if he did not follow the law or instructions of the officers unfortunately he received the same protocol any of us would have.. Former Marine or not.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:18 PM
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As many good marines/sailors/soldiers/airmen there are also a lot of bad ones so if he did not follow the law or instructions of the officers unfortunately he received the same protocol any of us would have.. Former Marine or not.

Agreed.

Our Armed Forces is 100% volunteer and I love them for what they do.. they stand up for us and others.. and being a former marine.. seems like he would have known better.. and if the reasoning behind SWAT even being at his home are true.. then .. soory it happened.. but he brought it on himself.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:23 PM
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As many good marines/sailors/soldiers/airmen there are also a lot of bad ones so if he did not follow the law or instructions of the officers unfortunately he received the same protocol any of us would have.. Former Marine or not.
That's what I was thinking: it doesn't matter the profession, unfortunately there tend to be just as many a-holes in the military as there are in civilian life. As much as I want each & every Marine to be a Brian Stann, that's sadly not the case.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:03 PM
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he was "alleged" to have been holding a weapon.. well.. if he wasn't holding it.. .
On his land...is that not permittable under US law?

Did they even have a "reason" to be their at all? In England you would have to actually FIND drugs before you make an arrest, let alone shooting someone whose merely under suspicion, and probably been startled...If he was innocent...dont suppose he'd expect armed invaders to suprise him...do you?
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:16 PM
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On his land...is that not permittable under US law?

Did they even have a "reason" to be their at all? In England you would have to actually FIND drugs before you make an arrest, let alone shooting someone whose merely under suspicion, and probably been startled...If he was innocent...dont suppose he'd expect armed invaders to suprise him...do you?
I am sure there is more to the story than what was summarized. If the police tell you to freeze you better do it. They are trained to shoot and kill not give you an ouchie on your big toe. They risk their lives everyday for our protection so I am sure they gave him a warning before anything was done to him.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:21 PM
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I am sure there is more to the story than what was summarized. If the police tell you to freeze you better do it. They are trained to shoot and kill not give you an ouchie on your big toe. They risk their lives everyday for our protection so I am sure they gave him a warning before anything was done to him.
I'm sure your right.

My point is...in US law, presuming you have the right liscence, and the right type of fire arm...you are allowed to have your gun, display your gun, carry your gun...and use your gun if you are attacked.

Therefore holding a fire arm bears absolutely no reflection on his presumed guilt.

Thats what I was getting at. Not that he was innocent...but that to be in possession of a legal fire arm on his property is not only allowed, in American Culture its very much encouraged...outside of the cities, it should be presumed that every person has a weapon...and that all tresspassers will be shot at...Thats perfectly legal in America.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:23 PM
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I'm sure your right.

My point is...in US law, presuming you have the right liscence, and the right type of fire arm...you are allowed to have your gun, display your gun, carry your gun...and use your gun if you are attacked.

Therefore holding a fire arm bears absolutely no reflection on his presumed guilt.

Thats what I was getting at. Not that he was innocent...but that to be in possession of a legal fire arm on his property is not only allowed, in American Culture its very much encouraged...outside of the cities, it should be presumed that every person has a weapon...and that all tresspassers will be shot at...Thats perfectly legal in America.
To be truthful I am not saavy when it comes to gun laws. I just use my noodle and figure if the police/feds come in surrender your weapon. haha.. Hopefully someone on this forum knows more about the laws and can help us both out..
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:33 PM
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To be truthful I am not saavy when it comes to gun laws. I just use my noodle and figure if the police/feds come in surrend your weapon. haha.. Hopefully someone on this forum knows more about the laws and can help us both out..
What I know, is what I've picked up here...coz obviously, we dont have guns in England

I assume you need a liscence to own a firearm...but I dont know that for certain. I am absolutely sure you need a liscence if you intend to carry one around with you outside your property.

I dont know if there is a limit to the type you can carry, or a liscence needed for each one, or if you can carry different types, or many of the same. I dont know about that...

I also have a feeling that these Laws differ from State to State...so I dont know if you may need like a liscence to carry in a different state on top of the liscence you already have to carry in your own.

One assumes there are also limits on what arms you can bear...I dont think the Federal Government permit Rocket Launchers for example.

Now I know that if you go hunting, you need liscences and records of each kill are made, and you can only hunt certain things, at certain times, and in certain ammounts.

I also dont know the laws for sorta making your own, or changing you weapon. For some reason, all the villans in England feel the need to cut the end of their barrels...I have no idea why...I dont know if you can do that in America or not.

But In America they also allow you to use other things...like Tazers, or sprays that make peoples faces swell up or something....

I dont know whether you need liscences for other weapons, like knives, or swords...in England you DONT need any liscence to buy or sell weapons like that...which suprised me considering how tight the gun control was. I have many a knife and a sword....but I am not allowed to use any if in danger, for I must remember, Criminals have human right also
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