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  #21  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:38 PM
Blade
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Are you a cop Spiritwalker?
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  #22  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Primadawn View Post
Oh! Oh! Do we get to start correcting everyone's grammar? Yes!!! I'm ON it! Can we do spelling too? Please? Please?
Grammer and spelling are two different things.. I have plenty of incorrectly spelled words.. mostly while I am at work and I have to post using IE.

and there is also a big difference in the use of the word "Isn't".. and "ain't".

but sure.. feel free to slaughter my spelling..
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  #23  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:50 PM
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Are you a cop Spiritwalker?
Actually no.

But I wanted to be one for many years.. I was taken some college and such getting me there..

Then I did some "day in the life" ride alongs.. wow.. opened my eyes... I don't have the mentality to do their job...

I respect police.. they get the first line of crap when something goes wrong.. and the VAST majority are always condemed for releative errors..

Are there bad cops?? sure.. just like people.. and that's what cops are.. people .. that for nominal pay.. do a job that many of us could not even imagine.
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  #24  
Old 05-17-2011, 06:38 PM
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UPDATE:

..............
What happened next would be hard to believe, except that Fiorino audio-recorded all of it: a tense, profanity-laced, 40-minute encounter with cops who told him that what he was doing - openly carrying a gun on the city's streets - was against the law.

"Do you know you can't openly carry here in Philadelphia?" Dougherty asked, according to the YouTube clip."Yes, you can, if you have a license to carry firearms," Fiorino said. "It's Directive 137. It's your own internal directive."

The cops, department officials later admitted, were wrong. They didn't know that a person who has a license to carry a firearm can openly carry it in the city.

But the story doesn't end there. How could it?

After Fiorino posted his recordings on YouTube, they went viral. Members of pro-firearms forums on the Web took a particular interest in the incident.

The Police Department heard about the YouTube clips. A new investigation was launched, and last month the District Attorney's Office decided to charge Fiorino with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct because, a spokeswoman said, he refused to cooperate with police.

Fiorino said he plans to sue the city whenever his criminal case is resolved.

Police spokesman Lt. Ray Evers said the department believes that Fiorino wanted to get into a confrontation with cops, that he wanted to see them lose their cool so he later could file a lawsuit.

Or, as one cop was overheard saying on the YouTube recording: "He set us the f--- up, that's what the f--- he did."

A handful of his friends fell victim to random crimes over the years - a mugging here, a beatdown there, the kind of stuff that happens all the time in a big city.

It was enough to make him think about being able to protect himself if he ever ran into trouble. "It would be terrifying to me to be powerless," he said.

So, about a year ago, Fiorino said, he got a firearms license and began openly carrying his .40-caliber Glock.

"I did research for quite a few years leading up to making a decision to carry," he said. "I was ready to take on the responsibility."

His gun went with him everywhere - to the store, you name it.

After he began carrying, Fiorino said, he was stopped a handful of times by cops in Montgomery County and other parts of the state. The encounters were civil and quick, he said, and usually ended when an officer checked out his firearms license.

He also had encounters with Philadelphia cops last year near the Philadelphia Museum of Art and on South Street.

"Both times they told me what I was doing was illegal," he said. "They patted me down and said, 'We don't care what you consent to.'

"The second time, they did an official confiscation, and it took me five months to get back my gun."

It could be argued that Fiorino should have stopped openly carrying his gun because it invited police scrutiny. But that argument couldn't be more wrong, said John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org.

Pierce, of Minnesota, said his website offers information on gun rights "from a legal perspective, a public-policy perspective, not from a 'my cold, dead fingers' viewpoint."

"According to the Pennsylvania and U.S. constitutions, open carry is Mark's right," he said.

"To say he has to give up that right in order to stop being persecuted by the state, well, that doesn't sound like the America we want to live in."

Pennsylvania allows citizens to openly carry firearms across the state, but with a simple caveat: A person who carries a weapon openly in Philadelphia also must be in possession of a firearms license.

Fiorino said he was following the law on Feb. 13, when he decided to take a walk to AutoZone while he was in the Northeast, visiting his mom.

It was a nice day, warm enough for him to head out without a jacket, leaving his holstered Glock fully exposed.

Fiorino's firearms license was in his shirt pocket, he said, along with his driver's license.

Oh, and a digital recorder.



An unnerving back-and-forth started to unfold like a bizarre routine. Dougherty would bark an order, and Fiorino would make an alternative suggestion.

Fiorino offered to show Dougherty his driver's and firearms licenses. The cop told him to get on his knees.

"Excuse me?" Fiorino said.

"Get down on your knees. Just obey what I'm saying," Dougherty said.

MORE STUFF ALREADY IN THE OTHER STROY....

"You f------ come here looking for f------ problems? Where do you live?" yelled one officer.

"I'm sorry, gentlemen," Fiorino said. "If I'm under arrest, I have nothing left to say."

"F------ a------, shut the f--- up!" the cop hollered.

The cops discovered his recorder as they searched his pockets, and unleashed another string of expletives.

Fiorino said he sat handcuffed in a police wagon while the officers made numerous phone calls to supervisors, trying to find out if they could lock him up.

When they learned that they were in the wrong, they let him go.

That might have been the end of the thing, too, if it hadn't been for the recordings.



"They treated me like a criminal," he said.

"The organization that's supposed to be the embodiment of the law didn't even know some of the most important laws at the street level."

He decided to put the recordings on YouTube.

"I wanted people to know this is an example of what can happen if you exercise your rights and freedom in Philadelphia," he said.

Fiorino said he didn't lay a trap for the cops. He regularly carries a recorder with him in case he ever has to use his gun and then offer proof of what transpired, he said.

"I'm not trying to set anyone up," he said.

"It was a setup. He's done this kind of thing before," said Evers, the police spokesman, referring to Fiorino's encounters with authorities. "He did it intentionally, and he audiotaped it."

Evers said the department decided to take a second look at the case after learning about the recordings.

Any number of things could have gone wrong during Fiorino's confrontation with Dougherty, Evers said.

For one thing, Evers said, Fiorino could have been shot. Cops who raced to the scene could have gotten into a car accident or injured pedestrians.

Ultimately, the D.A.'s Office decided to charge Fiorino with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct. He's scheduled for trial in July.

Fiorino's attorney, Joseph Valvo, said the move to file criminal charges against Fiorino was retaliation for his posting the recordings on YouTube.

"They're embarrassed and using creative theories to come up with charges," he said.

"Our officers weren't up to speed [because] we never really addressed it," said Lt. Francis Healy, the department's lawyer.

"In the last several weeks, we've done a lot of training and put out a lot of information about what is allowed and what's not allowed. Right now, our officers are better-versed on the subject matter."

Healy said he emphasized the importance of officers being polite and professional if they have to stop a person who is legally carrying a firearm.

"You can use caution, but you don't need to curse them up and down and put a gun in their face," he said.

At City Hall on Saturday, about 30 gun owners staged a protest of Fiorino's recent arrest.

The protesters and cops got along fine.

"These aren't bad people," Healy said.
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2011, 06:47 PM
County Mike
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Whether he set them up or not, he did not do anything illegal. If he exposed a problem in the system, they should have just fixed the problem and left him alone. Charging him after the fact just makes them look worse.

If he did it just for the opportunity to sue the police department, he's a scumbag but the cops still acted incorrectly. If he did it to emphasize his right to carry, I'm all for it. I believe in the right to carry and hate that it's nearly impossible to get a carry license in NJ.
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  #26  
Old 05-17-2011, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
Whether he set them up or not, he did not do anything illegal. If he exposed a problem in the system, they should have just fixed the problem and left him alone. Charging him after the fact just makes them look worse.

A mistake is just a mistake.. the cop didn't do anything illegal. Yet some people wish to drag the cops through the mud.. claiming political issues (go figure)


Quote:
If he did it just for the opportunity to sue the police department, he's a scumbag but the cops still acted incorrectly. If he did it to emphasize his right to carry, I'm all for it. I believe in the right to carry and hate that it's nearly impossible to get a carry license in NJ.

I don't see that the cops acted incorrectly.. given that the first cop was unaware of the carry openly law... The guy was just looking to cause some trouble..

And normally .. in my experience.. when people go out of their way to emphasize their rights.. they are usually in the wrong..
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  #27  
Old 05-17-2011, 06:59 PM
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The cops didn't do anything illegal by questioning and detaining him. They did act inappropriately.

Charging him after the fact is also wrong, even if it's not illegal. If he baited them and they fell for it, does that mean he did something illegal? I don't think so.
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2011, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
The cops didn't do anything illegal by questioning and detaining him. They did act inappropriately.
Disagree.... IMO.. it's difficult to act "appropriately".

But here is the audio..

http://www.copblock.org/3702/mark-fiorino-update/

just scroll down a little...

and you can hear the cop say.. put your hands up.. the goofball says.. I am going to show you my papers...

And just hearing the tone of this snots voice..

He's lucky he didn't get pistol whipped..."Now.. do you want to get down like I told you!"


Listen to how clear the audio is.. BS that he wasn't trying to cause this to happen.. what a patriot...

Go "friend him on FB"..

Mark also started a fundraising thread to bring a suit against the Philadelphia Police Department:

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...sponsible.html

What a tool.
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  #29  
Old 05-17-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiritwalker View Post
Grammer and spelling are two different things.. I have plenty of incorrectly spelled words.. mostly while I am at work and I have to post using IE.

and there is also a big difference in the use of the word "Isn't".. and "ain't".

but sure.. feel free to slaughter my spelling..
Just trying to make a point. You had to BOLD your "Isn't" to try to belittle Kentuckyredbone. I don't think that was necessary. We all make grammatical and spelling errors--no need to cast stones.

Incidentally, I don't think Kentuckyredbone was making a grammatical "error" anyway...just typing colloquially.
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  #30  
Old 05-17-2011, 07:12 PM
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This guy just strikes me.. hearing his voice.. reading about his actions..

He strikes me as THIS GUY. The only charater that is worse than Sam.. in the transformers movies..
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