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Old 05-17-2011, 03:43 AM
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Default Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man Legally Carrying Gun

Absolutely unreal...

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A story in today's Philadelphia Daily News shows why it's so important that citizens be allowed to videotape cops - it can be citizens' only way to fight back against police abuse of power.

This incident happened several weeks ago in Philadelphia to Mark Fiorino, a 25-year-old IT worker who carries a gun on his hip at all times for self defense. He got the gun after several friends were mugged.

But he didn't count on attacks by police:

On a mild February afternoon, Fiorino, 25, decided to walk to an AutoZone on Frankford Avenue in Northeast Philly with the .40-caliber Glock he legally owns holstered in plain view on his left hip. His stroll ended when someone called out from behind: "Yo, Junior, what are you doing?"

Fiorino wheeled and saw Sgt. Michael Dougherty aiming a handgun at him.
What happened next would be hard to believe, except that Fiorino audio-recorded all of it: a tense, profanity-laced, 40-minute encounter with cops who told him that what he was doing - openly carrying a gun on the city's streets - was against the law.

"Do you know you can't openly carry here in Philadelphia?" Dougherty asked, according to the YouTube clip.

"Yes, you can, if you have a license to carry firearms," Fiorino said. "It's Directive 137. It's your own internal directive."

Fiorino was right. It was perfectly legal to carry the gun. But that didn't matter to the cop:

Fiorino offered to show Dougherty his driver's and firearms licenses. The cop told him to get on his knees.

"Excuse me?" Fiorino said.

"Get down on your knees. Just obey what I'm saying," Dougherty said.

"Sir," Fiorino replied, "I'm more than happy to stand here -"

"If you make a move, I'm going to f------ shoot you," Dougherty snapped. "I'm telling you right now, you make a move, and you're going down!"

"Is this necessary?" Fiorino said.

It went on like that for a little while, until other officers responded to Dougherty's calls for backup.

Fiorino was forced to the ground and shouted at as he tried to explain that he had a firearms license and was legally allowed to openly carry his weapon.

"You f------ come here looking for f------ problems? Where do you live?" yelled one officer.

"I'm sorry, gentlemen," Fiorino said. "If I'm under arrest, I have nothing left to say."

"F------ a------, shut the f--- up!" the cop hollered.

The cops discovered his recorder as they searched his pockets, and unleashed another string of expletives.

Fiorino said he sat handcuffed in a police wagon while the officers made numerous phone calls to supervisors, trying to find out if they could lock him up.

When they learned that they were in the wrong, they let him go.
But only temporarily. Fiorino posted the audio recordings on youtube, and now they are harassing him again:

A new investigation was launched, and last month the District Attorney's Office decided to charge Fiorino with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct because, a spokeswoman said, he refused to cooperate with police... He's scheduled for trial in July.

If one listens to the audiotapes, it's hard to imagine how a reasonable person could charge Fiorino (and not the cops) for disorderly conduct.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:51 AM
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haven't listened to it..

but...

I understand the cops reaction...now if just MORE people were like this guy.. they would have to be more understanding...

Where the guy "messed up" was here...

"Sir," Fiorino replied, "I'm more than happy to stand here -"

He should have just done what the cop asked.. the cop was protecting himself.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:56 AM
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The cop needs to learn the law and how to behave in a professional manner!
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE View Post
The cop needs to learn the law and how to behave in a professional manner!
100% True
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:19 PM
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Law or not.. seeing someone walk down the street with a pistol on their hip.. they will react accordingly...

Who would you feel walking up to someone you didn't know and they had a gun on their hip... would you leave yours in the holster??

An open carry policy... like my state has.. is double delt... because you can't carry a gun on city property.. guess who owns the sidewalks....

I just carry conceled anyways... I would rather get in trouble for carry conceled... than have needed it.. and not had it...

""Do you know you can't openly carry here in Philadelphia?" sounds civil to me... granted.. apparently it's not correct...

Cops says.. get down on your knees... guy says "nope I'll stand"....and spirals from there..

That's where the guy messed up.. cop doing his job.. investigating a guy with a gun...what do you expect the cop to do walk up to him and smile.. "hey whath's up with the gun?"... sure that could be done.. but what if the guy is a nut job.. ?? And given that this doesn't seem to happen a lot in Philly.. maybe he is a nut job.. for trying to bring that kind of heat on himself....


"...Oh.. I think I will walk down to the AutoZone.... buy some stuff..."... Most places around here have signs up.. "no firearms".. If Philly was like that.. just where did this guy think he was going to store his gun??
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Old 05-17-2011, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiritwalker View Post
Who would you feel walking up to someone you didn't know and they had a gun on their hip... would you leave yours in the holster??
What do you mean? Would you throw down on someone for having a holstered, that is not threatening you, gun?

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Originally Posted by Spiritwalker View Post
""Do you know you can't openly carry here in Philadelphia?" sounds civil to me... granted.. apparently it's not correct...
Pulling a gun on someone who is obeying the law and is not a threat is not only not civil, it is not legal. The cops should have enough to do enforcing the law, if they have lots of free time to spend enforcing ‘stuff I don’t like’ and making sure the locals are cowering properly, I’m sure something can be done about that.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dethbob View Post
What do you mean? Would you throw down on someone for having a holstered, that is not threatening you, gun?
look at it this way.. 1000s of people around.. only one openly carrying a gun.. a cop doesn't expect to see this.. so no.. they aren't going to act the same if they are jaywalking...


Quote:
Pulling a gun on someone who is obeying the law and is not a threat is not only not civil, it is not legal. The cops should have enough to do enforcing the law, if they have lots of free time to spend enforcing ‘stuff I don’t like’ and making sure the locals are cowering properly, I’m sure something can be done about that.
not 100% correct... this was a cop.. who pulled his gun on someone carrying a weapon.. no clue as to this persons ability or mental status.. or history.. or anything.. but out of ALL the people that the cop saw that day.. I wonder how many non-cops.. were carrying a gun on their hip.. What did you expect him to do..."hey buddy... what's with the gun??" If the guy was looking for trouble.. he found it..

This person was out and about looking for to make some trouble.. why do you think he was recording the conversation?? The bozo.. walked out of his house with a gun on his hip... sure legal.. he didn't think he would get hasseled by someone??

My guess.. he is looking for his 15 minutes.. or a payday...

As far as the cops actions..

walked into a situation.. got scared.. jacked up with adrenaline ... and still didn't shoot the guy... "nice job"... the cop says drop to your knees.. he didn't.. ok.. think about this.. you are a cop.. you tell this guy with a gun to get down.. he doesn't want to.. what would go through YOUR mind...

Personally I think Fiorino was pretty damn stupid..

as far as cowering locals .. if you really think that's what the police do.. your mistaken.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:09 PM
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I'm OK with them questioning the guy. I'm even OK with them pulling a gun on him to ensure their own safety during the questioning. However, a little more calm would have been good for all parties involved. Sounds to me like the cop was too scared to act rationally.

Throwing around all the swear words, calling the guy a "f... a..hole" was over the top for someone who was responding in a calm, rational manner.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritwalker View Post
This person was out and about looking for to make some trouble.. why do you think he was recording the conversation?? The bozo.. walked out of his house with a gun on his hip... sure legal.. he didn't think he would get hasseled by someone??
If he knew that doing something perfectly legal would draw an illegal overreaction from the police, then he was doing a public service by doing it and pointing out a huge problem. Trying to fix something is not 'making trouble', even if some would rather tolerate injustice than risk a scene.

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as far as cowering locals .. if you really think that's what the police do.. your mistaken.
The problem is, that is EXACTLY what they were doing.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethbob View Post
If he knew that doing something perfectly legal would draw an illegal overreaction from the police, then he was doing a public service by doing it and pointing out a huge problem. Trying to fix something is not 'making trouble', even if some would rather tolerate injustice than risk a scene.
The cops reaction was not illegal.. don't know where you are getting that.. and given the circumstances.. I don't think it was such an over reaction..

Instead of trying to provoke attention .. I would try to fix something without the risk of getting shot by an overzealous cop...

And what was this guy exactly trying to fix? Nothing.. just trying to draw attention..

That cops can get scared when put in a sitution that they don't know everything.. just like people.. ?? What do you think happens every single time a cop pulls someone over..



Quote:
The problem is, that is EXACTLY what they were doing.
ermm.. no.. the cops were dealing with an unknown person (it seems).. who for some reason was walking around with a gun on his hip.. I would want to know why also.. and again.. where did he plan on storing his gun when he went into the store??? It just sounds like a setup.. and it was one local.. that was being dumb... not "the locals".

Didn't seem like the goofball with the gun on his hip was cowering.. seems to me like he knew exactly how to respond to ensure that he didn't get shot.. good for him.. I hope his rehearsals helped him..
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