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Old 05-03-2011, 12:10 AM
Buzzard
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Question OpEd piece. Why do Americans still dislike atheists.

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Interesting piece. Anyone here want to give their reasons if you feel this way?

I find the author's points to be valid.
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2011, 02:19 AM
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Psalm 14:
Quote:
For the director of music. Of David.

1 The fool[a] says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.

2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

4 Do all these evildoers know nothing?

They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the LORD.
5 But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,
for God is present in the company of the righteous.
6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the LORD is their refuge.

7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion!
When the LORD restores his people,
let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

(Psalm 14:1 The Hebrew words rendered fool in Psalms denote one who is morally deficient.)
In verse 2, GOD is looking down upon "all mankind," referencing all of humanity, not just those who don't believe in GOD. It's a condemnation of the entire human race. It's a theme repeated in the Bible that human beings are inherently evil and only GOD can be called good. In other words, there is no such thing as a "good person." Being a Christian is not about being a good person, it's about recognizing just how evil and corrupt we really are and knowing that there is nothing we can do to change that, outside of GOD's direct intervention.

As for the OpEd itself, trying to portray Atheists as some kind of oppressed minority just seems a little silly.
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:37 PM
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This looks like standard pro-Atheism boiler plate, with a victimhood hook clumsily stapled on.

It is not Rational to claim that disagreeing with someone’s opinion is bigotry.
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Psalm 14:


In verse 2, GOD is looking down upon "all mankind," referencing all of humanity, not just those who don't believe in GOD. It's a condemnation of the entire human race. It's a theme repeated in the Bible that human beings are inherently evil and only GOD can be called good. In other words, there is no such thing as a "good person." Being a Christian is not about being a good person, it's about recognizing just how evil and corrupt we really are and knowing that there is nothing we can do to change that, outside of GOD's direct intervention.

As for the OpEd itself, trying to portray Atheists as some kind of oppressed minority just seems a little silly.
Your biblical verses are nice and such, but they don't apply to me. I don't believe in your god. Do any verses in the Quran apply to you?

It seems silly to you because you aren't an atheist. Can I post in your Christianity section? I don't want to bash, but to participate. If I disagree with things in there, can I respond?

What points of his do you disagree with? Specifics too please.

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Originally Posted by Dethbob View Post
This looks like standard pro-Atheism boiler plate, with a victimhood hook clumsily stapled on.

It is not Rational to claim that disagreeing with someone’s opinion is bigotry.
It is rational if bigotry is indeed the case. I hear so many Christians whine about not being allowed to put up nativity scenes and say that they are always being persecuted. Is this victim-hood?

Why can't atheists join the Boy Scouts? It's because of their lack of religion.

Anyone going to give their reasons why they don't like atheists? I'm asking, I'm ready for the answers. Heck, some folks here have no problem expressing why they don't like Muslims, here's a chance to sound off against atheists where I can play too.

Gotta go to PT now, will check back later. RevwaR
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzard View Post
Your biblical verses are nice and such, but they don't apply to me. I don't believe in your god.
If I don't believe in gravity, does it no longer apply to me?

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Originally Posted by Buzzard View Post
Why can't atheists join the Boy Scouts?
Why can't atheists join the Mormon Church?

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Originally Posted by Buzzard View Post
Anyone going to give their reasons why they don't like atheists?
Straw man. I know plenty of atheists, I like them fine. What I don't like is an ideology that misleads people into thinking they don't need God.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dethbob View Post
If I don't believe in gravity, does it no longer apply to me?
That silliness doesn't deserve a response. Do the teaching of the Quran apply to you? Do you believe in Allah? Surely their teachings would apply to you even if you are an unbeliever if you say that biblical teachings apply to me.


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Why can't atheists join the Mormon Church?
Who says that they can't? I bet as an atheist I could join if I didn't tell them I was an atheist. I would just have to jump through the same hurdles as others who wish to join.

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Originally Posted by Dethbob View Post
Straw man. I know plenty of atheists, I like them fine. What I don't like is an ideology that misleads people into thinking they don't need God.
Ok, you aren't one of the folks mentioned, and that is great. My apologies for placing you in that category.

I don't need any gods; not yours or any of the other numerous gods out there. Not trying to be a smart ass, but I believe I am doing just fine without any of them. I could say the same about Christianity or any other religion because it misleads many to thinking that they need or that there is a god.

I had a co-worker who used to talk to me, sit with me at lunch etc., until he found out I was an atheist. Then he found out I was going to vote for Obama and that was it.

I've read many comments on this forum which were derogatory against atheists or any other non-Christian religion; some directed at me, some not.

What specifics in the OpEd do you disagree with? What specifics make you say this screams victimhood? I'm truly interested in this.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzard View Post
1. Your biblical verses are nice and such, but they don't apply to me. I don't believe in your god. Do any verses in the Quran apply to you?

2. It seems silly to you because you aren't an atheist. Can I post in your Christianity section? I don't want to bash, but to participate. If I disagree with things in there, can I respond?

3. What points of his do you disagree with? Specifics too please.
1. I'm merely pointing out that the author's evaluation of the Biblical passage was incorrect and out of context.

2. The Christianity section exists on this forum for a specific purpose. Just like the Matt Hughes, UFC and MMA sections all exist for a specific purpose. If you want to bash or attempt to discredit Christianity, then you are free to do it... on any other website but this one. You are also free to invite anyone here to debate with you on whichever other website you choose to have this discussion; but if no one is willing to engage in a debate with you, then you're just out of luck. Trying to characterize that as bigotry or discrimination is silly.

If you were to post a thread about Lady Gaga in the Matt Hughes section or a thread about baking a pie in the UFC section, they would be moved or closed because they are off topic. The same principle applies to the Christianity section.

3. Well, as noted, I disagree with the author's interpretation of GOD's Word.

Plus, I disagree that it's discrimination. If you want to see people truly being persecuted for their beliefs, then look at Christians being arrested, tortured and murdered for their faith around the world.

From Persecution.net:
According to the World Evangelical Alliance, over 200 million Christians in at least 60 countries are denied fundamental human rights solely because of their faith. David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, and Peter F. Crossing in their 2009 report in the International Bulletin of Missionary Research (Vol. 33, No. 1: 32) estimate that approximately 176,000 Christians will have been martyred from mid-2008 to mid-2009. This, according to the authors, compares to 160,000 martyrs in mid-2000 and 34,400 at the beginning of the 20th century. If current trends continue, Barrett, Johnson and Crossing estimate that by 2025, an average of 210,000 Christians will be martyred annually.

Now these numbers are estimates because this stuff primarily happens in remote, third world countries; but the evidence that persecution of Christians is alive and well in the world today far outweighs any evidence of persecution against Atheists:

(From an attack on Christians in India in 2008)
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:42 AM
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Straw man. I know plenty of atheists, I like them fine. What I don't like is an ideology that misleads people into thinking they don't need God.
After thinking about your reply, I realized it wasn't a strawman at all. My question was "Anyone want to give their reasons for why they don't like atheists?"

You said that that you liked them, so the question didn't apply to you. If there are folks on here that it applies to, hopefully they'll answer the questions and join in the conversation.

Can you convince me that the deity in whom you believe in is the OTG? I'm asking you this sincerely. If you can, great. If you aren't comfortable with me asking questions back, then I don't think this will work, but I'll still give it a go. If not interested, no problems there either.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzard View Post
"Anyone want to give their reasons for why they don't like atheists?"
I have several friends who are Atheists or agnostic and, if it came right down to it, I would vote for an Atheist Presidential candidate long before I voted for a Muslim Presidential candidate. I would prefer it if I wasn't put in that position, but if those were the only two options, that is how I would vote.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
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1. I'm merely pointing out that the author's evaluation of the Biblical passage was incorrect and out of context.
Thanks for clarification.

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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
2. The Christianity section exists on this forum for a specific purpose. Just like the Matt Hughes, UFC and MMA sections all exist for a specific purpose. If you want to bash or attempt to discredit Christianity, then you are free to do it... on any other website but this one. You are also free to invite anyone here to debate with you on whichever other website you choose to have this discussion; but if no one is willing to engage in a debate with you, then you're just out of luck. Trying to characterize that as bigotry or discrimination is silly.
Where did I try to characterize the act of people not wishing to engage or debate with me as being bigotry or discrimination? If you are talking about my comments to Flo, completely different topic.

I wish to discuss. Are you are basically saying that one can only speak if they agree with your views, no questioning allowed? What would you call that if so? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, which is why I am asking you these questions.

I asked my question to see if anyone wishes to share their views. I asked for it, I'm ready to discuss.

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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
If you were to post a thread about Lady Gaga in the Matt Hughes section or a thread about baking a pie in the UFC section, they would be moved or closed because they are off topic. The same principle applies to the Christianity section.
Can I bring up religiony type stuff in the Woodshed?

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3. Well, as noted, I disagree with the author's interpretation of GOD's Word.
What interpretations are you talking about? The only thing referred to was this quote.

"More than 2,000 years ago, whoever wrote Psalm 14 claimed that atheists were foolish and corrupt, incapable of doing any good."

What is your interpretation?

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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Plus, I disagree that it's discrimination. If you want to see people truly being persecuted for their beliefs, then look at Christians being arrested, tortured and murdered for their faith around the world.
If I were comparing persecution levels, your point would be worth adding, it's not here because it doesn't apply to this particular discussion. Not trying to sound snarky here.

What specific points of his were silly? He backed up some of his statements. What do you have to refute his statements?
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