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  #21  
Old 04-06-2011, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
In the NT all sin gets a death penalty and has the same result. This is what i mean by levels of sin. A thief will suffer the same fate as a serial killers or a sexual deviant. The OT was the Foundation because it gave us the law. Paul said I would not know what sin is except for the law. So I would not begin to claim that one set of sins are worse than another. man has invented this idea so they can make their own personal sin seem less pugnacious in the eyes of God. fact is all sin is an abomination.
Everyone suffers death(here on this earth) whether they sin or not. But after death, do you believe that everyone faces the same fate in Heaven?

I believe that when you stand before Him you will be judged and rewarded accordingly. Does He not look at your life and judge you? It won't be the same fate as everyone else.
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
In the NT all sin gets a death penalty and has the same result. This is what i mean by levels of sin. A thief will suffer the same fate as a serial killers or a sexual deviant. The OT was the Foundation because it gave us the law. Paul said I would not know what sin is except for the law. So I would not begin to claim that one set of sins are worse than another. man has invented this idea so they can make their own personal sin seem less pugnacious in the eyes of God. fact is all sin is an abomination.
True, no one is denying that, but that doesn't change the fact that GOD Himself prescribed different degrees of earthly punishment for different degrees of sin in the Old Testament.

Leviticus 20:
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. 3 I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, 5 I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.

6 “‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.

7 “‘Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. 8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

9 “‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head.

10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

11 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his father’s wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

12 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his daughter-in-law, both of them are to be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.

13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

14 “‘If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

15 “‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

16 “‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

17 “‘If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They are to be publicly removed from their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.

18 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her monthly period, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them are to be cut off from their people.

19 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.

20 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless.

21 “‘If a man marries his brother’s wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

22 “‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.

25 “‘You must therefore make a distinction between clean and unclean animals and between unclean and clean birds. Do not defile yourselves by any animal or bird or anything that moves along the ground—those that I have set apart as unclean for you. 26 You are to be holy to me because I, the LORD, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.

27 “‘A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.’”

So, clearly different sins required a different earthly punishment (although some might argue that getting "cut off" from their people was a fate worse than death in those days) and this is coming straight from GOD Himself.
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  #23  
Old 04-06-2011, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
Everyone suffers death(here on this earth) whether they sin or not. But after death, do you believe that everyone faces the same fate in Heaven?

I believe that when you stand before Him you will be judged and rewarded accordingly. Does He not look at your life and judge you? It won't be the same fate as everyone else.
Are you talking about Christians or the unsaved?

The Judgment seat of Christ or The Great White Throne judgment?
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  #24  
Old 04-06-2011, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
Are you talking about Christians or the unsaved?

The Judgment seat of Christ or The Great White Throne judgment?
I was talking about Christians. But I wouldn't mind your opinion on either. The Great White Throne judgment might be a great thread by itself.
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  #25  
Old 04-06-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
Are you talking about Christians or the unsaved?

The Judgment seat of Christ or The Great White Throne judgment?
Maybe I need to clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
In the NT all sin gets a death penalty and has the same result. This is what i mean by levels of sin. A thief will suffer the same fate as a serial killers or a sexual deviant. The OT was the Foundation because it gave us the law. Paul said I would not know what sin is except for the law. So I would not begin to claim that one set of sins are worse than another. man has invented this idea so they can make their own personal sin seem less pugnacious in the eyes of God. fact is all sin is an abomination.
I dont believe that a thief will suffer the same fate as a serial killer. Their punishment in the afterlife will be different. Everyone will answer for their actions, one way or another. That is what I believe.

If you are a Christian (ie. saved, lol) we have to answer to Him when we stand before Him. He will decide our rewards in Heaven, which by default will include punishment for sins (or for lack of works) committed here on earth.

If you are unsaved then you still have to stand before Him, answer to your actions, and a punishment/fate decided. (Right? )
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  #26  
Old 04-06-2011, 03:45 PM
Chuck
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
Maybe I need to clarify.



I dont believe that a thief will suffer the same fate as a serial killer. Their punishment in the afterlife will be different. Everyone will answer for their actions, one way or another. That is what I believe.

If you are a Christian (ie. saved, lol) we have to answer to Him when we stand before Him. He will decide our rewards in Heaven, which by default will include punishment for sins (or for lack of works) committed here on earth.

If you are unsaved then you still have to stand before Him, answer to your actions, and a punishment/fate decided. (Right? )
I don't believe there will be any punishment in Heaven for believers as a result of their sin. Unless you're saying not getting a reward is punishment?
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2011, 05:16 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
Everyone suffers death(here on this earth) whether they sin or not. But after death, do you believe that everyone faces the same fate in Heaven?

I believe that when you stand before Him you will be judged and rewarded accordingly. Does He not look at your life and judge you? It won't be the same fate as everyone else.
I should have said Spiritual death. Thanks Neezar for bringing that up. Yes an unrepentant soul will all face the same judgment and punishment and that is eternal separation from God. There are 2 different judgments The Great White Throne Judgment for he unbelievers and the Judgment seat of Christ for the followers. The Judgment seat of Christ each person will have their works tested by fire and rewarded accordingly as you mentioned. The GWTJudgement will send all those who rejected Christ into the pit with Satan. This call all be found in Revelation and the Judgment seat of Christ is spoke about by Paul in the Corinthian letters.
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2011, 05:18 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
True, no one is denying that, but that doesn't change the fact that GOD Himself prescribed different degrees of earthly punishment for different degrees of sin in the Old Testament.

Leviticus 20:
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. 3 I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, 5 I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.

6 “‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.

7 “‘Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. 8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

9 “‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head.

10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

11 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his father’s wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

12 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his daughter-in-law, both of them are to be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.

13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

14 “‘If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

15 “‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

16 “‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

17 “‘If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They are to be publicly removed from their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.

18 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her monthly period, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them are to be cut off from their people.

19 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.

20 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless.

21 “‘If a man marries his brother’s wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

22 “‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.

25 “‘You must therefore make a distinction between clean and unclean animals and between unclean and clean birds. Do not defile yourselves by any animal or bird or anything that moves along the ground—those that I have set apart as unclean for you. 26 You are to be holy to me because I, the LORD, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.

27 “‘A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.’”

So, clearly different sins required a different earthly punishment (although some might argue that getting "cut off" from their people was a fate worse than death in those days) and this is coming straight from GOD Himself.
Earthly punishment are a whole different story. The world is dictated by a reaping and sowing principal. So of course you will have varied levels. But Mark was not talking about that in his post so I was not chasing a rabbit
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2011, 05:22 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
Maybe I need to clarify.



I dont believe that a thief will suffer the same fate as a serial killer. Their punishment in the afterlife will be different. Everyone will answer for their actions, one way or another. That is what I believe.

If you are a Christian (ie. saved, lol) we have to answer to Him when we stand before Him. He will decide our rewards in Heaven, which by default will include punishment for sins (or for lack of works) committed here on earth.

If you are unsaved then you still have to stand before Him, answer to your actions, and a punishment/fate decided. (Right? )
Revelation 20:11-15. The punishment is all the same but they are each judged according to their deeds. However the result is not different.

Revelation 20:11-15 (King James Version)

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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  #30  
Old 04-06-2011, 05:26 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
I don't believe there will be any punishment in Heaven for believers as a result of their sin. Unless you're saying not getting a reward is punishment?
Our sins are cast as far as the east is to the west. But our works and deeds are judged and the reward is based on that. Jesus parable of the talents is but one example. Paul says our works will be tested by fire and what is left is what was true.
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