Confess AND Believe

Originally Posted by BamaGrits84

I don't know why this has been on my heart so much lately, but I am starting to pondered if a lot of people who say they are Christians actually understands what that means. I hear so many people say the believe in God and accepting Jesus as their Savior is the only way to heaven, but I can't help but wonder if they actually believe in Jesus with their heart. I think if you have Jesus in your heart you suffer from conviction when you sin. You detest sin, you suffer remorse when you sin, and you desire deeply to remove it from your life. Do you think anyone who truely has Jesus in them could be any other way? I hear so many people say "I know it is wrong, but..." The "but" kills me if it is not followed by how they are trying to removed the sin. I know none of us are perfect, but I think it is the desire to be pleasing to the Lord that pulls at my heart so much. It just makes me wonder when I see someone living in a way that displays their lack conviction for their sin that makes me wonder the content of their hearts. I guess I wonder if people falsely believe they are saved because their actions do not reflect Jesus in their hearts.

First of I'm glad that you feel this way. I think the burden and conviction you feel is evidence of your own maturity in Christ and desire to draw closer to Him. I think what you're speaking of is "Cultural" Christianity. From what I've seen so far living in FL it's pretty prevalent in the South. Lot's of people claim to be Christians because they go to church on Sunday, own a Bible or think they are "good people". None of this makes them a Christian and none of it will ensure them eternal life.

I can't tell you how many times I've been disappointed in people who call themselves Christians then behave in a way that completely contradicts scripture. Unfortunately I also couldn't begin to tell you how often I've been that person. Therein lies the problem.

Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"
This verse not only points out the need for Salvation of all mankind but it unfortunately illustrates our continued battle with sin even once we are saved. I think what's difficult though is seeing Christians who don't seem to be "battling" their sin at all.

Consider the words of Paul in Romans 7

Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
Rom 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. [fn] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
Rom 7:19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

His frustration is evident.. he's at war with his sinful nature and clearly frustrated by it. I think that is what separates those that call them selves "Christians" from those who are truly pursing a passionate relationship with Jesus Christ. We hate our sin.. we're frustrated (not defeated) with our continued struggle with it. We want to draw nearer to Him more than we want to submit to our own flesh.

I'm a devoted and passionate Pittsburgh Steelers fan. This year, like every year we are in the Super Bowl "fans" of the Steelers come out of the woodwork. Me??? I've always been a fan. Win or lose. And I always will be. I didn't enjoy this years Super Bowl (not just because we lost) because I was surrouned by casual fans of the Steelers. Fans who couldn't tell you the last time we were in the Super Bowl and had no idea who the Rooney's were. It drove me nuts. I love the Steelers. I truly do, and I want to surround myself not with casual fans but fans that share my devotion, passion and pride. Now follow me here.........................

It's the same way with my faith. I don't want to surround myself with casual Christians. I don't routinely break bread with members of the C&E club. I want to be surrounded by believers who share my same passion and pursuit of an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. I pray for my fellow believers and help and encourage them when able but my inner circle is filled with people who I share that common bond with.

For your own spiritual growth I encourage you to do the same. When the Holy Spirit puts a burden on your heart for believers who don't share your conviction or passion for Christ use that as an opportunity to pray for them. But surround yourself with like minded believers. Push each other and encourage each other as you all grow deeper in your relationship with the Lord.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

I have not read a single post in this thread...but I confess, and I believe.

I just dont need to confess to you or the church, unless I want to make a public profession, which is entirely my own choosing.

I only need confess to GOD, and only need to believe in Him and His Word...I can pick and choose from Church Dogma and Tradition, and evalutate myself whatever is presented on here by anyone.

Bible say deny me befroe men and i will deny you before my father. That Dave is clearly a PUBLIC confession.

Originally Posted by Chris F

Bible say deny me befroe men and i will deny you before my father. That Dave is clearly a PUBLIC confession.

How is he denying Christ?

Originally Posted by Miss Foxy

How is he denying Christ?

He is saying he doe snot have to confess publically unless he wants to. That is in direct contradiction to scripture. In fact we should confess him to others on a daily basis. It is arogant to say you do nto have to confess Chrsit as Lord unless you want to. Sad thing also you agreed with him.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Chris F

Bible say deny me befroe men and i will deny you before my father. That Dave is clearly a PUBLIC confession.

No. That is...if you are asked, and you do believe, dont lie about it.

That isnt...go up to the top of every street and shout "I believe" or else your hiding it.

I wouldnt Deny Christ...but I dont need to publically profess unless either asked, or I want to. I do get asked, because of my Tattoo mainly...but also because of my Mourning Band which I now wear for forty days after a friend of mine has passed away, or on the years mind. Almost everyone who sees that asks what it is.

Every time they do, I tell them.

But I dont go up to them and say, look at this, I dont need to. I know what I'm doing, GOD knows what Im doing...if anyone asks, I tell them...but if they do not ask, then I usually dont say.

What was that Christ said about those dumbass religious people, who stand on street corners, and babble long and converluted prayers to be heard squarking in public.

Did he not say, if you were fasting, to wash and make yourself fresh so noone would know...because GOD knows, and thats all that counts? IMHO YOU are a modern day Pharasee, coz thats EXACTLY what you do...piety, for pieties sake...you know your law inside and out...but the Law doesnt save you Pastor Christ...its the Spirit of The Law that saves...No I dont have memorized half the Bible....I do my daily readings, and my daily prayers, on the quiet...I have no need to convince anyone of anything...I know the Truth, If they dont accept the Truth, that is their problem...I dont need to look all big and Christian, and Religious...I dont need to run around quoting Scripture at people, and shouting about Jesus Christ every ten seconds, to frighten off anyone on the road side or at work.

You know...when I first went to University, the Chaplaincies had a stall in the Freshers Fair...a simple stall, with just hundreds of bags of peanuts..They didnt even have a header board. But when people opened and at the bag, they found a scrap of paper with two words and a question mark on it

"Religious Nut?"



I am a Christian...but that does not make me a "Religious Nut" You are probably a Christian also...but your certainly a "Religious Nut"

i don't know how I missed this continuing until I just read a message from someone else on it. Tyburn, you missed my point. I didn't say I thought a person's salvation is reflected by their public confession. After all a person's actions speak louder than words. It seems the point was missed completely. Have you ever heard the song "Who I Am Hates who I've Been"? That's song really says it all.

I know we are all flawed. By no means do I fail to see the plank in my own eye. But I think any person who professes Jesus as their Savior but is ok whit living how they desire under the idea that no one is perfect has failed to really believe in their heart. With Jesus in your heart you should always desire to work towards being like Him.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by BamaGrits84

i don't know how I missed this continuing until I just read a message from someone else on it. Tyburn, you missed my point. I didn't say I thought a person's salvation is reflected by their public confession. After all a person's actions speak louder than words. It seems the point was missed completely. Have you ever heard the song "Who I Am Hates who I've Been"? That's song really says it all.

I know we are all flawed. By no means do I fail to see the plank in my own eye. But I think any person who professes Jesus as their Savior but is ok whit living how they desire under the idea that no one is perfect has failed to really believe in their heart. With Jesus in your heart you should always desire to work towards being like Him.

I dont think being a Christian equals instant and complete character redevelopment. I think it is the start of a new creation which takes a while to grow and develope. I think that you progress to grow more christlike...and I think that progression is controlled mostly by him, the more you allow him to work, the faster the transition.

This reflects the pauline Scriptures that speak about seeing dimly now, but seeing all at the last, and about eating milk, before solids. I dont think conversion means the Christian stops sinning. I think the first thing he does is sin...but whereas it didnt bother him before, now it does. I then think he realizes he cant help it, even though his mind wants not to sin, his flesh still lets him down.

Again, Saint Paul talks about this in his writings, and about how the moment of conversion is the start of physical death for the flesh, because the Flesh is sinful and will never be salvaged, it cant be saved. The ressurectional body is similar, but not the same...and like the antibodies in your blood attack an infection...so the Spirit of GOD will begin its work of clensing body and spirit...the clensing of the body is its demise, it is fragile, weak, stupid, and not destined for glory. This maybe why Jesus talks about cutting off limbs to stop sin. I dont think he meant it litterally...but I do think that there is a certain amount of disdain for the flesh which becomes more of a hassle then its worth.

Slowly, over time maybe the Christian sins less...or maybe he simply repents more because he realizes his whole world litterally revolves around sinful activities...mainly confined to his thoughts...thank goodness...but all the same. Once he realizes his thought life is sinful, he knows he cant free himself....which is fine. Ye have not, because Ye Ask Not....GOD is waiting to help...but he does enjoy being asked. Unlike Demons, he wont force himself upon you.

So it depends what GOD is doing with a person and what the person is struggling with as to how far they change...and I dont think we should ever judge...but I think we should support...if we see someone we suspect isnt acting like they should considering what the profess to be...it might be time to offer them aid. Its certainly not time to judge...the last thing we want to do, if our suspicions are right, is to entrench them further into their sin

I'm not saying you were suggesting otherwise, simply stating what I believe to help clarify to your specific point about change

Originally Posted by Tyburn

So it depends what GOD is doing with a person and what the person is struggling with as to how far they change...and I dont think we should ever judge...but I think we should support...if we see someone we suspect isnt acting like they should considering what the profess to be...it might be time to offer them aid. Its certainly not time to judge...the last thing we want to do, if our suspicions are right, is to entrench them further into their sin

I'm not saying you were suggesting otherwise, simply stating what I believe to help clarify to your specific point about change

I don't think it is judgement. I believe when the bible says not to judge others it refers to a person acting as if the have authority over another person's life and eternity. The bible says if you see another Christian in the wrong to address it first alone, then bringing another person if need be and showing them the biblic truth for how Christians are expected to believe. And I don't mean think it should be one Christian goes to another person and says "Hey you said you are a christian but I saw you at the bar last night and that's wrong so you must not be really saved." That is far from what I mean. I just think some people are missing the heart part and don't even understand the fullness of accepting Christ. If they have falsely understood how is it wrong to lovingly show them biblical truths and then allow them to go from there?

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by BamaGrits84

I don't think it is judgement. I believe when the bible says not to judge others it refers to a person acting as if the have authority over another person's life and eternity. The bible says if you see another Christian in the wrong to address it first alone, then bringing another person if need be and showing them the biblic truth for how Christians are expected to believe. And I don't mean think it should be one Christian goes to another person and says "Hey you said you are a christian but I saw you at the bar last night and that's wrong so you must not be really saved." That is far from what I mean. I just think some people are missing the heart part and don't even understand the fullness of accepting Christ. If they have falsely understood how is it wrong to lovingly show them biblical truths and then allow them to go from there?

I dont think its wrong...I just think its really hard to do right....after all...one presumes that is what dear Pastor Chris was trying to do to me, further up this very page

I might be able to handle that...but other people who have had that kind of aid from a few people on this forum, have vanished, never to return...and one wonders...did that aid help them...or simply push them further into backing up their own sinful ways?

I sure am Dave I am a nut that comes from the tree of life. Thanks for that nice compliment. That is the nicest thing you have ever said to me thanks!!!! You have a duty to tell others of Christ it is called the great commission and it was a command not a suggestion. SO join the rest of us nuts and tell everyone you meet.