I ain't yet figured where in the constitution he gets this authority!

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by NateR

But no one can legally pay below minimum wage, unions or no unions. You do realize that a minimum wage worker in the United States is still considered one of the richest people in the world? If someone is not living outside of their means, then minimum wage is plenty.

If anything, destroying the unions will cause the unemployment rate in this country to plummet. Sure the jobs will be for lower wages and less benefits, but at least people will have jobs.

The Minimum wage is no longer sufficient in England to live on. Dont know about America though.

Has Barack Obama got a new advisor or something? The reason I ask is that from the start of this year he's suddenly stopped acting like a Orator and suddenly started to actually act like a politician. Either he's suddenly grown a completely new brain...or else someone behind the scenes with alot of knowledge and experience has suddenly started to tell him what to do.

He's now acting politically...which is most unlike him. He's refused to give a statement about the Arab Revolt...which is a wise thing to do...but a thing he isnt clever enough to realize based on his past term in office...so someone, somewhere has told him not to speak. Now he is trying to gain support from a certain sector of the community because he's just realized without a sudden transformation...he wont make it in 2012. Someone...someone very high up, and increadibly clever...lots of experience...has been helpping him a lot since his mid term disastor.

Personally, I think its too little, too late...I think most Americans will never forget the health reform...I think even another natural...or...unnatural disastor hitting the US before the end of his Tenure would not be enough to save him. I would be VERY supprised if he is Still in Office after next year.

I have to say...if I were a Democrat...I would have to consider whether it would be worth putting the effort in to save him...or really, whether it be high time for the party to support someone else...because the Democrats wholistically havent looked too bad...because of their large liberal range, it hasnt been easy for Obama even when he had majorities everywhere...there is plenty of time for a faction to begin promoting another Democrat...if they did then I dont know for certain the Republicans would win the next General...but I think it would ruin Obama...if he does nothing to quell it, he looks weak, and he loooses...if he does something to quell it then the Democratic party looks as fragmented as it did when half supported Clinton during the Primaries...and this far away from the ellection it would be like a party civil war...and the Republicans would bearly have to do anything except not get involved with the scandel to be seen as the only party capable of running the country.

People may still blame George Bush for the Iraq War...but that was a moral point that didnt effect them personally...I think...even though its not his fault, people will blame the state of the economy on Barack Obama...who inherited a tragic inbox, lets be honnest...but because he hasnt done anything to make matters better...he looks...useless...and the lack of jobs, and the closure of businesses, and the loss of livelihoods...they effect people on a day to day basis...far more then a war on the other side of the world...it feels more personal when your bank account is low, and your having to buy insurance you dont want or need.

Only the Militant Gays will get behind him...half of them will see that this is so obviously a con just to get support going into the ellection...and rather then aggreeing and being nice to them...its actually an insult to homosexuals everywhere...on such a tender issue, a senior politician has decided to use a ploy to get votes...its not nice. Its also not a characteristically Obama thing to do...mark my words...it comes from a more senior (probably in age) democrat behind the scenes who is dedicating his life to trying to get Obama re-ellected, and has been since the mid term defeat.

[flo]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Has Barack Obama got a new advisor or something? The reason I ask is that from the start of this year he's suddenly stopped acting like a Orator and suddenly started to actually act like a politician. Either he's suddenly grown a completely new brain...or else someone behind the scenes with alot of knowledge and experience has suddenly started to tell him what to do.

He's now acting politically...which is most unlike him.

Yes, he's in campaign mode.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by flo

Yes, he's in campaign mode.

But this wasnt the campaign mode that won him the office in the first place. That was based on being an orator...he's not trying to talk his way back into office...now he's actually being a politician...its...bizzare

Originally Posted by Miss Foxy

Hard work? I am gonna so toot my own horn!! Raised 2 kids alone while ex was always deployed and worked full-time went to college also so I do know a few things about hard work!! However working too much doesn't work for me right now I have a full-time job and have children at home that need me when I come home so I am gonna complain in lieu of working another job to have latch key kids and end up being a mother of a teen mother or gang member..

Yeah I hear you and that is a choice oyu make and the smae one I would make in your shoes. Good raised kids is a part of that AMerican dream as well. If I were in your shoes you bet I would preder to eeke by than let someone else raise my kids. This is a big reason we do not have more.

Originally Posted by flo

Yes, minimum wage here is better than wages in much of the rest of the world but it's not meant to be a living wage. The minimum wage applies (for the most part, I know there are exceptions), to enty level workers. Just check the unemployment rate among teens. We had a family restaurant and paid minimum wage to the high school kids we hired. If they worked hard and did a good job, they got raises.

If we were required to pay teens a living wage, we wouldn't have stayed in business long.

excellent example

Originally Posted by Miss Foxy

I can argue that working for a Union Local 7600 to be specific was much better than working where I work now...I work for a company that does not provide raises, we are in healthcare yet have horrible benefits, and also lays off their employees then re-hires and pay a few dollars lower.. When I was in a union none of that happened! At all.. We had our cost of living raise and annual review raise.. Our benefits were awesome..

Great till the company goes out of business or overseas! Also shouldn't the members that pay the dues have a say in what candidate the Union donates money to? The original idea behind Unions was good but now they are untrustworthy thugs. The modern Union boss cares more about power than the members who pay the dues! Then when they cause a company to go out of business they hurt alot of people. The public sector Unions just might be the worst though!

Originally Posted by Chris F

There is no data supporting that idea. That is a common lie the unions use to "protect" themselves but there is just no proof that is the case.

Actually Chris, there is a lot of data showing that union workers earn more than their nonunion workers.

Info

At least 6 of the first 10 or so links have info showing such. I know for a fact that in my field of work, my union wage is higher than the nonunion wage for my job.

Originally Posted by Chris F

Wages should be dictated by the market and the employees worth not the gov. The middle class is disappearing because it is easier to live of uncle SAM than to put in an honest days work, and thanks to the unions most decent jobs have been outsourced to make it more profitable for the elite class.

Huh? It's the union's fault because the greedy corporate machine wants to line their own pockets at the worker's expense? We differ on opinions here.

Originally Posted by Chris F

All unions do anymore is act as a liberal propaganda machine. They bully their member to vote DNC and even have forced some to have DEM signs in their yard and such.

Generalize much? In my 24 years as a union member, never have I been bullied to vote DNC. Do you have any links to union members being forced by their union to have DEM signs in their yards? I have trouble believing it, but hey, anything is possible.

Originally Posted by Crisco

I'm sorry Nate 7 bucks an hour is not a living wage.

Maybe in the midwest where the cost of living is lower.

an a legion of people making 7 bucks an hour are not going to be able to push the economy.

Wow Crisco, I find you and I in agreement on many more issues lately.
Sorry you and I got off on the wrong foot.

Originally Posted by Chris F

Crisco most places where the cost of living is higher do not start at the minium wage anyhow. They would not find workers if they did.

Any documentation to support your claim?

Originally Posted by Chris F

Besides that if you need more money than get a second job. A little work never killed anyone. I have to work two jobs becuase I do nto have the $$$ to live. Sure I hate it but until the economy changes I have no choice. The Market should dictate the wage nothing else.

What do you do when the market conditions call for a raise for you but your corporate bosses decides to pocket all the cash for themselves instead of giving you a living wage? What happens when you are fired unfairly and lose your house only because a supervisor doesn't like you? Unions still serve a valid purpose and it's a shame that only the bad news is what you hear. Of course, bad news is the only news that sells.

Originally Posted by NateR

But no one can legally pay below minimum wage, unions or no unions.

Sorry, but you are incorrect here Nate. Waiters and waitresses are paid below the minimum wage and have to rely on tip income to fill in the missing money. If the tips aren't there, the employee makes less than minimum wage but then the employer has to make up the difference. There are other exceptions too. I do get what you are saying though and not trying to be that picky but.........

Dept of Labor

Exemptions

Originally Posted by NateR

You do realize that a minimum wage worker in the United States is still considered one of the richest people in the world? If someone is not living outside of their means, then minimum wage is plenty.

Maybe in Somalia. When did they legalize weed where you live? <--------Insert laughing emoticon here.

Originally Posted by NateR

If anything, destroying the unions will cause the unemployment rate in this country to plummet. Sure the jobs will be for lower wages and less benefits, but at least people will have jobs.

Care to explain how you figure this to work?

[Mark]

Originally Posted by NateR

If someone is not living outside of their means, then minimum wage is plenty.

Do you think you can raise a family on that?

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Mark

Do you think you can raise a family on that?

Considering how little kids really need to prosper and have happy childhoods, yes of course you can.

Here's the Global Rich List, where you can enter your annual income and it will tell you how rich you are compared to the rest of the world:
http://www.globalrichlist.com/index.php

Some examples:
A single American living at the poverty level of $10,294 annual income (in 2006) would be in the top richest 13.25% people in the world.

An American worker earning the minimum wage of $6.55 (July 2008) would be in the top richest 12.64% people in the world.

The median income per household member of $26,036 (in 2006) would be in the top richest 9.47%.

An American making the average hourly wage of $17.88 ($35,760 in 2008) would be in the top richest 4.4% people in the world.

A U.S. high school teacher earning the average salary of $52,450 (in 2007) would be among the top richest 0.96% people in the world.

A UAW worker making the average hourly wage of $39.68 (in 2007 with overtime, holiday and vacation pay, etc.) would be in the top 0.79% richest people in the world.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/06/...imum-wage.html

I made $13,942 working part-time at Walmart last year which puts me in the top 12.46% percentile of the richest people on the planet.

Originally Posted by NateR

Considering how little kids really need to prosper and have happy childhoods, yes of course you can.

Here's the Global Rich List, where you can enter your annual income and it will tell you how rich you are compared to the rest of the world:
http://www.globalrichlist.com/index.php

Some examples:
A single American living at the poverty level of $10,294 annual income (in 2006) would be in the top richest 13.25% people in the world.

An American worker earning the minimum wage of $6.55 (July 2008) would be in the top richest 12.64% people in the world.

The median income per household member of $26,036 (in 2006) would be in the top richest 9.47%.

An American making the average hourly wage of $17.88 ($35,760 in 2008) would be in the top richest 4.4% people in the world.

A U.S. high school teacher earning the average salary of $52,450 (in 2007) would be among the top richest 0.96% people in the world.

A UAW worker making the average hourly wage of $39.68 (in 2007 with overtime, holiday and vacation pay, etc.) would be in the top 0.79% richest people in the world.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/06/...imum-wage.html

I made $13,942 working part-time at Walmart last year which puts me in the top 12.46% percentile of the richest people on the planet.

Y'All must not eat much!