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  #11  
Old 01-11-2011, 07:34 PM
rearnakedchoke
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just a question ... when Jesus was baptized, what was he baptized as? i don't recall if jews have a similar ceremony ...
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
Baptism is for believers. If you do it beofore all you are is a wet sinner not yet saved by grace.
Where in the Bible does it say this?
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2011, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
what definition of baptism are you using? baptism of a child? or baptism of an adult? i am only familiar with baptism of children (my catholic upbringing), but with baptism of an adult, are they baptized when they are entering the faith or when they are saved?
if the former then i would think not, but if the latter, then from what i have read on here, it would seem that the person was never truly saved to begin with ...
I am talking about adult baptism.
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  #14  
Old 01-11-2011, 08:13 PM
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Where in the Bible does it say this?
Most places it is mentioned, belief and/or repentance come first; see Acts 8, Mathew and Mark 1. Of course if you baptize someone long enough they’ll probably repent, hee hee..
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  #15  
Old 01-11-2011, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
just a question ... when Jesus was baptized, what was he baptized as? i don't recall if jews have a similar ceremony ...
Well, as a Baptist, of course!
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  #16  
Old 01-11-2011, 08:31 PM
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In the case of infant baptism, I could see it doing more harm than good. A parent's first and most important job is to raise children who love GOD and seek His Will. That alone is more important than education, health, nutrition, etc. A parent who has their child baptized as an infant might be under the mistaken impression that their job of evangelizing their child is done and think that that child is covered when it comes to salvation. Which could make the parents' spiritually complacent throughout the rest of their child's development. So, if that parent does nothing else to teach their children about GOD and Jesus Christ, then the infant baptism could have the unintended effect of consigning that child to Hell.

However, back to the actual question of adult baptism, it does no good whatsoever to be baptized as an unbeliever.

I would put adult baptism in the same category as church attendance/membership and charitable giving/acts. All very good things to do, but without salvation, they are meaningless.
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  #17  
Old 01-11-2011, 08:49 PM
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what about acts 2:38?

why would an adult be baptized if they weren't a believer?

baptism with out repentance does nothing.
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  #18  
Old 01-11-2011, 09:27 PM
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Well baptism cant be bad for you. particularly not adult baptism as Christ was baptized as an adult...but it follows the same lines as a marriage...Baptism, is a Sacrement...this means the Church have no control over it. The Ceremony is thus totally symbolic and meaningless unless GODs blessing is also upon it

The Church basically is still only doing EXACTLY what John the Baptist was doing. They Baptise with water. But for Salvation you need Baptism with the Spirit. This happens whenever a conversion occures...so it almost never happens during any ceremony at all.

But the Ceremony does involve the convert making a public profession of his faith, and thereby not denying GOD, or hiding in secret what has occured. Sometimes the moment of Baptism is an experience of epic proportions...but most of the time, its actually uneventful...many brought up Christians cant put their finger exactly on when they believed for themselves, rather then basically believing what they had been taught by their parents

in the Church of England, Adults are usually confirmed, rather then baptised...I think thats good for another reason, they say Confirmation is membership of the Church...that takes the onus away from a mystical ceremony that can supposedly force the Spirit of GOD to overcome someone by splashing water in their face...and rather makes it more about community...about the brotherhood, or family involved in the Church...it doesnt therefore claim even to do anything spiritual at all. The Roman Catholics do similar...so similar they actually say there is two sacrements...one for Baptism (infant) and one for Adult Confrimation...I tend to think those are one and the same blessings but given at two possible times

The basis is always thus...man can not force GOD to do anything...everytime a ceremony is conducted that is not to GODs liking or taste...its a sham...regardless of what the church performing the rite will say...same is true for marriage

So the Sacrements are

Baptism and/or confirmation
Marriage
Ordination or Concecration (or people into the church or ground)
Transubstantiation during the Eucharist (this is the only one the Church doesnt pretend to have control over)
Healing of the Sick
Reconcilliation/Repentance/Forgiveness

So to answer your Question mark. No. If the person is not Saved, Baptism is meaningless, whether infant, or adult. It will not bring them Eternal Life, it will not bring them forgiveness of their sins, it will not bring them Salvation. (unless of course they happen to repent and convert during the ceremony itself...but that, of course, would be GODs doing and not the Church...and he's highly unlikely to work like that IMHO...he's not really interested in Ceremony of the Church...so he's unlikely to use that method to suddenly bring someone to him. Its impersonal, and robotic...and he wants relationship and love.
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Last edited by Tyburn; 01-11-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-11-2011, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR View Post
then the infant baptism could have the unintended effect of consigning that child to Hell.
only if it lives in a vaccum
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  #20  
Old 01-11-2011, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Where in the Bible does it say this?
matt 28:19-20
acts 8:36-39
romans 6:3-5


baptism by immersion a single time into water is a solemn testimony of our faith in a cruicified buried and risen Savior

illustrating our death to sin and resurrection to new life
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