Why are some of you Calvinists?

?

Because he's just so funny.

[Vizion]

Are you suggesting there may be a list ???

I would say I agree with about 4 points of Calvinism, but I'm definitely not a 5point Calvinist. And it is my understanding you are only a Calvinist when you agree with all 5 points. Why do you ask?

[NateR]

12 point Calvinism:

[NateR]

Here are the 5 points as I understand them:

1. Total Depravity/Original Sin - people are inherently and hopelessly evil from even before the moment of conception. "Good people" simply don't exist. Everyone is evil and corrupt. We can never earn our way to Heaven through good works.
My opinion: Totally agree

2. Effectual Calling/Regeneration - when we are saved, our motivation to not sin and do good works becomes intrinsic, not extrinsic. In other words, our actions are no longer motivated by a fear of punishment or a hope of reward. Living a life that is pleasing to GOD becomes our primary goal.
My opinion: Totally agree, but Christians are at different levels of this depending on their spiritual maturity.

3. GOD's Election - whether someone goes to Heaven or Hell has already been preordained. Those who are preordained for Hell, aren't going to get many chances in life to choose GOD, if any at all.
My opinion: I don't know about this one. Jacob and Esau would probably be a good example of this, since GOD specifically said that He loved Jacob, but hated Esau (Malachi 1:2-3). I just think the whole predestination thing is something that we are not going to truly understand until we get to Heaven.

4. Particular Redemption/Limited Atonement - Jesus only died for the elect, not all of mankind.
My opinion: I can see this logically following the 3rd point, but again, I'm not sure if I agree. The parable of the sower implies that the Word of GOD is meant for all humanity, whether that person is receptive or not. So I would be inclined to believe that Jesus died for all humanity as well.

However, I think the point is moot. Regardless of whether Jesus died for all or just some, we don't know who those people are, so we need to preach the Gospel to everyone.

5. Perseverance of the Saints - basically eternal security or "once saved, always saved."
My opinion: I agree. Once someone is saved, there is nothing that can snatch them from GOD's Hand. If a Christian walks away from the faith, then it's likely that that person was never saved in the first place.

Matthew 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

I'm having trouble understanding how predestination and this verse in particular can go hand in hand... Why would Christ say that someone was not willing if he knew they already had no choice in the matter...

I actually was listening too a calvinist talk about stuff and mentioned a phrase along the lines of Iso-christ?

I guess meaning isolating the teachings of Christ from the rest of scripture but that logic sounds stupid to me...

Granted the bible was inspired by God but Christ is God... How could it ever be wrong to isolate his direct word and study it...? The idea that someone would talk down to someone for focusing on Christ is silly to me.

[adamt]

the real question is why get down down to such close detail

seems to me that when you start arguing calvinism and armenianism you are really just trying to find something to biccer about.

is debating the super fine points of christianity really accompolishing anything for God?

This is an excellent book regarding Calvinism and Arminianism and finding the balance between them.

Originally Posted by adamt

the real question is why get down down to such close detail

seems to me that when you start arguing calvinism and armenianism you are really just trying to find something to biccer about.

is debating the super fine points of christianity really accompolishing anything for God?

No it's a very important questions... It's a huge difference..

That's like the difference between representing the body and being the body... One makes it completely wrong