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  #201  
Old 12-28-2010, 04:53 PM
Twinsmama
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Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
And to clarify my statement a bit:

Do you have the heart to tell a person in a wheel chair who loves their country and wants nothing more then to serve it in anyway shape or form that they aren't allowed to be a military accountant or filing clerk because their not Chuck Norris.

you can't make decisions based on heart. wheelchair guy should get a filing job....really there are probably 1000's of people more qualified. sorry my opinion would be that he would have a hard time bending and reaching.

wait....i strike the above statement....i think i'm going to wait for Mark to reply before I decide if I agree with you....
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  #202  
Old 12-28-2010, 04:55 PM
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Jonlion Jonlion is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
I don't think physical handicap should exclude someone from military service perhaps from combat but not from military service.

Really what I'm getting at here is that criminals are not patriots. You obviously don't love your country much if your commiting crimes against its citizens.

I gave the word patriot to much room for interpretation. That's my bad.

Criminals are not patriots - what baloney.


Not all criminals are rapists, Paedo's and murderers! And some murderers are still patriots.
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  #203  
Old 12-28-2010, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiritwalker View Post
What's your thoughts on Don't Ask Don't Tell?
To be honest, I don't know. I've not really read either the original bill that Clinton signed into law nor the one which Obama just signed, so I'm not in a place to offer an educated decision.

My knee-jerk reaction is to say let them serve. Even though homosexuality is a sin, it is exactly the same sin as committed by all the heterosexuals who get whores or sleep with each other: lusting after & having sex with someone who isn't their husband/wife (y'all know what I mean, let's not spin this off into a gay marraige debate! ).

Like I said, that's just my knee-jerk reaction & it's not an educated position, so please don't interpret it as such.
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  #204  
Old 12-28-2010, 04:57 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
I'll post it again just incase for those who just simply see the word Mark and then press agree.
Crisco this is not about you or people want to disagree wiht Mark. I disagree with Mark a lot and we get along just fine. What it is, is your logic. Notice as the thread progressed you began to add prefaces to your statement. You already lose credibility by doing that. The fact is you statement as made has to be answered NO. Not anyone who wants to join should be allowed. You must make amends in order to make that statement more accurate. A better question might have been should anyone be denied simply because they are gay for example. Then the only rebuttal would be a slippery slope on their part. For example NateR response while I agree with what he said it is a fallacy because it is a slippery slope argument because he cannot prove pedophiles and homosexuals think the same way. Why because they are both choices and they have found no biological proof as of yet. So his argument is nothing more than speculation and thus a slippery slope, one I happen to agree with.

SO should people get to join w/o fear of prejudice, sure but not just anybody should be allowed plain and simple it is a job and there must be standards.
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  #205  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:03 PM
adamt adamt is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
Aside from failing the basic intelligence exam what do we rightly think should prevent a patriot from trying their hardest to be of some kind of good use to the country?

Please keep in mind the word patriot I used there. I do not mean some muslim terrorist bent on the downfall of America.

if a rapist is a patriot you would let him serve? How about a pedophile or murderer?

Now this is YOUR logic not mine:

" A pedophile, rapist or murderer should be able to serve their country as long as they are patriots and want to"




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Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
Ok seriously keep it perspective and you never answered the question.


What PATRIOT who is not a criminal doesn't deserve the chance to serve their country some how. Answer me that and then do your agree ot disagree post don't just base it off of a single line in the whole post. You left out the entire explaination of the statement.
you are using man's law as the litmus test and standard

we are using God's law

You say if they are a criminal? Well shouldn't some sins be criminalized? Beastiality for example?

Sodomy in my book is criminal.

And don't tell me that we are all sinners and we all would be disqualified. That is like me saying we have all got speeding tickets and we are all criminals and unable to serve under your logic.




i've said it before and i'll say it again.


this isn't about serving and it isn't about military.

this is just another way the sodomites are attempting to make their sin mainstream. To legitamize it.

I'll admit, you have some valid arguments, though they are flawed.

They know they have valid arguments(though the same arguments can be applied to other agregious people as well, as many of us have already pointed out), and they know that if they can get the military to acknowledge, toleract and then accept them, they will have to be more accepted in other arenas.

The sad fact of the matter is, is that christians feel compelled to accept the sinner and forget the sin, the problem is that the sin is still allowed to continue on. That is the boat we are in today. Homosexuals have been allowed in society and accepted and tolerated. Even good christians are desensitized to their abomination and no longer feel the need to separate their evil from our society.

Crisco answer me one good question. Where does it stop? You are obviously against rapists being soldiers, but what if they pay thier penalty to society?

How about someone who likes to have intercourse with dead bodies? They don't hurt noboby else do they. Is that illegal? Should it be illegal?

What's the standard and why is it so different today than it was 100 years ago.

The point is, you need to use God's standard. Not man. and by saying the legality of it is all that matters is using man's truth, not God's Truth.




If you take a ruler and measure off a 12" piece of string, then you use that piece to measure out another piece, then you use that new piece to measure out another piece and so on, i guearantee you will be way off after 20-30 cuts. Why? because of the standard you are using. That has happened in our legal system, we keep building off the prior generations standard, instead of maintaining one standard. And that standard ought to be God. Period.
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  #206  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:05 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by bradwright View Post
do you really believe its a criminal act to be gay Nate ?...really ?

and for you to say if i defend gays i must also believe there is nothing wrong with being a pedophile is just insane...they are two totally different things and if you dont see the difference then all i can say to that is..... WOW ! ! !
Brad look at the logic they use about homosexuality. They say they were born with that desire for men and should be protected because that is just the way they are. If one were to accept this claim w/o any biological proof then they must agree that it is possible for the pedophiles to make the same claim and thus it is the exact same thing. BTW it is criminal in our country because we have standards of conduct that is not the case in some places. In fact kids are pimped out to older men. The cirminal act is irrelevent to the argument because it does not speak to the issue NateR makes and that is they want the right because htey feel that is just the way they are. SO you fail your burden of rebuttal here because you just assume the two cannot equate because of your personal belief.
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  #207  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:14 PM
adamt adamt is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
And to clarify my statement a bit:

Do you have the heart to tell a person in a wheel chair who loves their country and wants nothing more then to serve it in anyway shape or form that they aren't allowed to be a military accountant or filing clerk because their not Chuck Norris.
do you have the heart to tell them they can't be n combat?

What's that? You wouldn't let them be in combat? Isn't that discrimination? You wouldn't discriminate would you? But what if he loves his country? Oh okay, then it would be okay.



they don't want to be discriminated against, but they sure don't mind parking in the handicapped spots when it is snowing and five below out, they don't mind that special treatment
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  #208  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:16 PM
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Spiritwalker Spiritwalker is offline
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Originally Posted by adamt View Post


you are using man's law as the litmus test and standard

we are using God's law
If you take a ruler and measure off a 12" piece of string, then you use that piece to measure out another piece, then you use that new piece to measure out another piece and so on, i guearantee you will be way off after 20-30 cuts. Why? because of the standard you are using. That has happened in our legal system, we keep building off the prior generations standard, instead of maintaining one standard. And that standard ought to be God. Period.

But not everyone in this country shares the same belifes in regards to religion.. A religious standard for a country based on freedoms would be very difficult (granted there are plenty of Christian and Jewish standards in the USA that most people don't even know about)...then you start having disagreements on which religious view should be used to draw standards.. then the other groups complain.. then some kook from a really small groups make a bomb... or the biggest group has a crusade/jihad..
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  #209  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
Brad look at the logic they use about homosexuality. They say they were born with that desire for men and should be protected because that is just the way they are. If one were to accept this claim w/o any biological proof then they must agree that it is possible for the pedophiles to make the same claim and thus it is the exact same thing. BTW it is criminal in our country because we have standards of conduct that is not the case in some places. In fact kids are pimped out to older men. The cirminal act is irrelevent to the argument because it does not speak to the issue NateR makes and that is they want the right because htey feel that is just the way they are. SO you fail your burden of rebuttal here because you just assume the two cannot equate because of your personal belief.
i will go real slow so you understand...

ONE....IS...A...CRIMINAL....ACT...AND...ONE...IS.. .NOT ! ! ! ! ! !

ONE....IS....A...CONSENTING....ACT....BETWEEN....T WO....ADULTS....AND....THE....OTHER....IS.....AN.. ..ACT...OF....RAPE....BY...AN....ADULT...ON...A... MINOR
and for you or anyone to compare the two as being the same just screams insanity on your part.
so unless you dont see a pedophile as being a criminal then it is you that fails your burden of rebuttal....
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  #210  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:19 PM
Crisco
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Originally Posted by adamt View Post
do you have the heart to tell them they can't be n combat?

What's that? You wouldn't let them be in combat? Isn't that discrimination? You wouldn't discriminate would you? But what if he loves his country? Oh okay, then it would be okay. A person is a wheelchair is not combat capable you will be hardpressed to find a wheel chair bound person willing to put the lives of an entire unit at risk simply so then can wheel around in the desert.



they don't want to be discriminated against, but they sure don't mind parking in the handicapped spots when it is snowing and five below out, they don't mind that special treatmentThat's just cold homes. LEt the guy with no leg have the closer spot... That's not something to be bitter about that's just plan the decent thing to do.
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