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  #21  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:09 PM
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Thats only half the definition of a sport.

Sport is also done for Entertainment purposes....Especially when its showcased.

The UFC are not just a sports brand...they are a retail outlet...where people pay for a product.

So the challenge is harder then trying to win. The challenge is to be both entertaining AND to win...and lets make this REALLY clear...you can be entertaining on the ground, as well as Stand up.

But you have to constantly engage...it is NO GOOD dancing around on the feet...and it is NO GOOD laying on top of someone. But Punching and Kicking are fabulous...and trying to get a submission is magnificent.
The sport as it currently works is entertaining as it is, that's the point that people who whine about fights that are boring don't understand.

What is considered entertainment lies in the eye of the beholder, and some people find Machida and GSP exciting weather you agree or not. Sports on the professional level are entertaining by nature, but a true fan who cares about the integrity of the sport and finding who the best is shouldn't have an expectation that every fight is going to play out a certain way.

I know you don't watch other sports Dave, but if you did you would understand where I am coming from with that. Sports fans are very critical when they feel the integrity of the sport is compromised just to get a certain outcome that is more entertaining, and rightfully so.
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
Thats only half the definition of a sport.

Sport is also done for Entertainment purposes....Especially when its showcased.

The UFC are not just a sports brand...they are a retail outlet...where people pay for a product.

So the challenge is harder then trying to win. The challenge is to be both entertaining AND to win...and lets make this REALLY clear...you can be entertaining on the ground, as well as Stand up.

But you have to constantly engage...it is NO GOOD dancing around on the feet...and it is NO GOOD laying on top of someone. But Punching and Kicking are fabulous...and trying to get a submission is magnificent.
Which is exactly what Georges does in all his fights yet he still gets crap for not finishing. I agree that the fighters have to be entertaining though.
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:12 PM
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Someone should remind him of that one

It wouldn't matter if they did.

Dana's justification was that Cain didn't want certain language in his contract that existed in Chuck Liddell's contract, and who was Cain at the time to make such a demand?
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:12 PM
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someone got dana ticked off in the nelson camp, and he took it out on gerald harris mark his territory and prove who is boss


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LOL I also approve this message

Why dont people understand that this is a sport?. Where the objective is to out point your opponent and outsmart them all while inflicting the most damage and receive the least amount of damage in the process!!!!

i understand what you are trying to say, but it is a sport to only the ones in the ring or cage, to everyone else it is entertainment. In the gym and to those participating it is a sport, to those watching it is entertainment
greg is in the sports business, dana is in the entertainment business, that is what needs to be understood

that being said, i think greg made his point well that he and his have entertained, not just won the sporting contest

they're in the ufc for the money as much or more than anything, and the money is for entertaining, if they are there for the sport of it then all the griping you here about low fighter pay should stop


Dana needs to put his money where his mouth is...

pay everyone a base and pay a small win bonus and pay a huge finish bonus....

It's not the fighter's fault that the scoring system sucks....they are working the system, bypass the scoring system and give the fighters a reason not to go all three rounds

and it takes two people to fight, if a guy wins two rounds its the other guys job to make the last round exciting, and that is why gerald got cut, he got owned for two rounds then he failed to do anything the third round(i imagine there is alot more to it than meets the eye as well, not to mention he prolly wanted more than he was worth, which begs the question, why doesn't gerald stay in the ufc at like 2000 a fight? just for the sport)

rampage, tho poorly, did manage to engage machida, so it can be done(forcing engagement),

dana needs to reconsider his management, he is paying them to win, and they win, he needs to pay them for finishing with no win bonus if that's what he wants them to do

Last edited by adamt; 11-30-2010 at 10:27 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:17 PM
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i understand what you are trying to say, but it is a sport to only the ones in the ring or cage, to everyone else it is entertainment. In the gym and to those participating it is a sport, to those watching it is entertainment
That is exactly why MMA will cease to grow bigger than other major sports and will never "kill" Boxing.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by J.B. View Post
The sport as it currently works is entertaining as it is, that's the point that people who whine about fights that are boring don't understand.

What is considered entertainment lies in the eye of the beholder, and some people find Machida and GSP exciting weather you agree or not. Sports on the professional level are entertaining by nature, but a true fan who cares about the integrity of the sport and finding who the best is shouldn't have an expectation that every fight is going to play out a certain way.

I know you don't watch other sports Dave, but if you did you would understand where I am coming from with that. Sports fans are very critical when they feel the integrity of the sport is compromised just to get a certain outcome that is more entertaining, and rightfully so.
If you cared about that then you wouldnt be in support of fast tracking people like Anderson Silva or Brock Lesnar...The integrity that is lacking is all institutional...they degrade their own belts...by fast tracking...and hey...they even made it an award in one of their game shows. like it was some kinda prize that silly sods who were cut for not being good enough, could take if they squashed into a house full of each other and fought once or twice.

Yet you shy away from that J.B. You shy away from being vocal against the things that do the real damage to the integrity of the sport. We've spoken about fighter saftey and the different interpretations of different refs, bringing about different punishments for the same crimes...I dont recall you supporting me on that either..

...no...I dont understand, because I dont watch any other sport...perhaps you watch so much more sport, you have forgotten how to be dedicated to one sport. Who cares if the UFC is boring, when you can turn over and enjoy a boxing, or football, or whatever else it is you watch.....

Far from being the fickle, mainstream, uneducated trollop who is corroding the integrity of the sport...I am the exact opposite...and its ironic you can point that out, but not support any of the practical arguments...HECK...for you not even greasegate really matters...who cares if he cheats?? what did you call it...tin foil hat...or something...

oooooooh the nerve...the cheek....the downright undignified charges you level at me...and fail to acknowledge in yourself
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by adamt View Post
someone got dana ticked off in the nelson camp, and he took it out on gerald harris mark his territory and prove who is boss




i understand what you are trying to say, but it is a sport to only the ones in the ring or cage, to everyone else it is entertainment. In the gym and to those participating it is a sport, to those watching it is entertainment
greg is in the sports business, dana is in the entertainment business, that is what needs to be understood

that being said, i think greg made his point well that he and his have entertained, not just won the sporting contest

they're in the ufc for the money as much or more than anything, and the money is for entertaining, if they are there for the sport of it then all the griping you here about low fighter pay should stop


Dana needs to put his money where his mouth is...

pay everyone a base and pay a small win bonus and pay a huge finish bonus....

It's not the fighter's fault that the scoring system sucks....they are working the system, bypass the scoring system and give the fighters a reason not to go all three rounds

and it takes two people to fight, if a guy wins two rounds its the other guys job to make the last round exciting, and that is why gerald got cut, he got owned for two rounds then he failed to do anything the third round(i imagine there is alot more to it than meets the eye as well, not to mention he prolly wanted more than he was worth, which begs the question, why doesn't gerald stay in the ufc at like 2000 a fight? just for the sport)

rampage, tho poorly, did manage to engage machida, so it can be done(forcing engagement),

dana needs to reconsider his management, he is paying them to win, and they win, he needs to pay them for finishing with no win bonus if that's what he wants them to do
+1!!
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
If you cared about that then you wouldnt be in support of fast tracking people like Anderson Silva or Brock Lesnar...The integrity that is lacking is all institutional...they degrade their own belts...by fast tracking...and hey...they even made it an award in one of their game shows. like it was some kinda prize that silly sods who were cut for not being good enough, could take if they squashed into a house full of each other and fought once or twice.
FACT CHECK...I never supported Lesnar getting a title shot that quick. What I did say is that the UFC couldn't hide him on under-cards because of his status as a celebrity. In case you forgot, the Heavyweight Division of the UFC has been a joke for years. Brock came in and went 1-1 and got a title shot, I NEVER said I agreed with that.

Anderson Silva? He is the best middleweight in the world and arguably the best P4P fighter in the world. Deal with it brother. You just don't like him so you exaggerate the idea of him being fast tracked, but he was dominating outside the UFC.

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Yet you shy away from that J.B. You shy away from being vocal against the things that do the real damage to the integrity of the sport. We've spoken about fighter saftey and the different interpretations of different refs, bringing about different punishments for the same crimes...I dont recall you supporting me on that either..
So because I don't agree with your absurd interpretation of how the point system should work, I don't want to see the sport progress? Please...

Quote:
...no...I dont understand, because I dont watch any other sport...perhaps you watch so much more sport, you have forgotten how to be dedicated to one sport. Who cares if the UFC is boring, when you can turn over and enjoy a boxing, or football, or whatever else it is you watch.....
Right, that's why I waste so much time arguing about it online and run my own blog about the sport, which YOU contribute to..

I've been a sports fan my whole life. Boxing and MMA are the only sports that are year round. Football is on Sundays, and basketball is during the week. My time for each sport is managed just fine, thank you very much.

Quote:
Far from being the fickle, mainstream, uneducated trollop who is corroding the integrity of the sport...I am the exact opposite...and its ironic you can point that out, but not support any of the practical arguments...HECK...for you not even greasegate really matters...who cares if he cheats?? what did you call it...tin foil hat...or something...
Did I say you were a fickle, mainstream, uneducated trollop? No.

You are a unique fan, to say the least, but you do buy into some concepts I don't totally agree with. However, you are hardly uneducated about the sport, and I would never say that. That being said, I gave you my thoughts on Greasegate and why I think it was blown out of proportion. You don't have to agree, but it hardly makes me wrong or less of a fan.

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oooooooh the nerve...the cheek....the downright undignified charges you level at me...and fail to acknowledge in yourself
Again, I didn't level any charges at you. Relax, take the chip off your shoulder, and go back and read what I said again. I am speaking in general about the integrity of the sport being compromised by trying to manufacture only one type of product.
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by J.B. View Post
Again, I didn't level any charges at you. Relax, take the chip off your shoulder, and go back and read what I said again. I am speaking in general about the integrity of the sport being compromised by trying to manufacture only one type of product.
ohh...I thought you were talking about me..in this thread...about the entertainment thing...
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:31 PM
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ohh...I thought you were talking about me..in this thread...about the entertainment thing...
Not specifically, I was speaking in general.

I understand that people want to see exciting fights, but the problem is that the fans don't seem to understand that not every fight is going to fit their idea of exciting every time. What some people find exciting others find boring, and sometimes guys have a bad night. If a guy is consistently losing fights and looks unengaged then of course he should be pushed aside. However we can't think it's fair to cut guys who get wins and do have good fights after they have one bad fight, or start trashing a guy who keeps dominating his opponents but doesn't always finish them.
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