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Old 09-20-2010, 08:02 PM
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Question is this heretical?



I was thinking about how GOD gave Ezekiel the words to write directly, by making him eat the scroll before he began writing. A demonstration perhaps that the words are His and not Ezekiels...but anyway...Sometimes Words lack the kenetic quality that can get passed peoples defences.

Now Obviously if you set Liturgy to music, then you have holy words, scriptural words. But what of the music itself. Some older Composers, who lived around, or prior to the Enlightenment, have left us with masterpieces, able at the very least to inspire people, and written specifically for GOD. All Organ music was written for the Church in those days

The Bible records that in the Heavenly Realms, the Host sing, continually, all the time, 24/7 in the throne room. Now Remember, that once we die, and are ressurected, we are a higher form of Creation then the Host. Do you think its possible that some of the music they sing in the throne room, ever finds its way to perceptive Christians, who have meditated on the Word of GOD and decide to create a masterpiece to his Name? You know that whilst the Host are an Army in the combative and military sense, they are also Royal Proclamators. We know they can play EARTHLY instruments because the Trumpet is one of their specialities according to revelations, we also know that they can physically fight Human combatants, a great many believe it was the head of the armed forces who lost a wrestling match with Abraham, even if he did try to cheat. In much the same way, all Armed Forces on Earth make a special point about Marching Bands. there are many similarities. Why is it presumed they end with the military comparisons, and not the musical also?

In essence, that some of the music we might hear is in some way imparted by GOD, in a similar way to the way the Bible was written to the composers. Some have said that once they start the music almost seems to write itself.

Is it wrong to wonder about this, when we hear beautiful choral works describing GOD, or encapsulating bits of Scripture?
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:26 PM
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I think that any music is inspired by God. The question is how well we fallen humans are able to recieve and enact that inspiration. All art, all things beautiful are a reflection of the beauty of God.

And yes, I would say that even the "art" that is a Bible in a urinal had its inspiration fom God, it's just unfortunate that the man who recieved the inspiration was so darkened by his own sinful nature that he twisted that inspiration into something shameful and heart-breaking.
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:40 PM
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I think that any music is inspired by God. The question is how well we fallen humans are able to recieve and enact that inspiration. All art, all things beautiful are a reflection of the beauty of God.

And yes, I would say that even the "art" that is a Bible in a urinal had its inspiration fom God, it's just unfortunate that the man who recieved the inspiration was so darkened by his own sinful nature that he twisted that inspiration into something shameful and heart-breaking.
The more you look for him, the more you see him I think.

But then I dont know, I have a powerful imagination. I wanted to check what I was thinking wasnt contradictory to scripture...if its not mentioned, fair enough...but I dont want to be creating an unreal fantasy if that makes sense.
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:24 PM
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I was thinking about how GOD gave Ezekiel the words to write directly, by making him eat the scroll before he began writing. A demonstration perhaps that the words are His and not Ezekiels...but anyway...Sometimes Words lack the kenetic quality that can get passed peoples defences.

Now Obviously if you set Liturgy to music, then you have holy words, scriptural words. But what of the music itself. Some older Composers, who lived around, or prior to the Enlightenment, have left us with masterpieces, able at the very least to inspire people, and written specifically for GOD. All Organ music was written for the Church in those days

The Bible records that in the Heavenly Realms, the Host sing, continually, all the time, 24/7 in the throne room. Now Remember, that once we die, and are ressurected, we are a higher form of Creation then the Host. Do you think its possible that some of the music they sing in the throne room, ever finds its way to perceptive Christians, who have meditated on the Word of GOD and decide to create a masterpiece to his Name? You know that whilst the Host are an Army in the combative and military sense, they are also Royal Proclamators. We know they can play EARTHLY instruments because the Trumpet is one of their specialities according to revelations, we also know that they can physically fight Human combatants, a great many believe it was the head of the armed forces who lost a wrestling match with Abraham, even if he did try to cheat. In much the same way, all Armed Forces on Earth make a special point about Marching Bands. there are many similarities. Why is it presumed they end with the military comparisons, and not the musical also?

In essence, that some of the music we might hear is in some way imparted by GOD, in a similar way to the way the Bible was written to the composers. Some have said that once they start the music almost seems to write itself.

Is it wrong to wonder about this, when we hear beautiful choral works describing GOD, or encapsulating bits of Scripture?


not to be argumentative, but i don't believe this


i don't think angels can sing at all

only praise

i have yet to find a reliable source as to angels being able to sing

humans have that honor, and that is why it is special

but angels don't sing
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:37 AM
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not to be argumentative, but i don't believe this


i don't think angels can sing at all

only praise

i have yet to find a reliable source as to angels being able to sing

humans have that honor, and that is why it is special

but angels don't sing
How can one Praise without Singing? The Psalms seem to indicate that the praise is Musical. I grant you within the heavenly realm, im not sure how communication works, nor exactly what a "being of Light" consists of.

In the Temporal Realm, the Host appear in humanoid form, they are supposed to be indistinguishable because Saint Paul says some have entertained Angels and been unaware, theefore should we not assume they can, in the temporal realm do everything we can?

Also the Host are described in "Choirs" Granted, that could just be a taxanomic bracket. But didnt they sing to the Shepheards when they told of the Incarnation?? I suppose it never directly uses the word "sing" only "praise" and there is an interesting point about gifts being lavished on us that might be above that of the Host, because our ressurected nature is thus.

I honnestly dont know the answers to this.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:42 PM
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How can one Praise without Singing? praise is a matter of the heart, really, but i know what you're saying, The Psalms seem to indicate that the praise is Musical.i do believe this as well, but this of course is of human I grant you within the heavenly realm, im not sure how communication works, nor exactly what a "being of Light" consists of.

In the Temporal Realm, the Host appear in humanoid form, they are supposed to be indistinguishable because Saint Paul says some have entertained Angels and been unaware, theefore should we not assume they can, in the temporal realm do everything we can?good point, and that does give me something more to think on

Also the Host are described in "Choirs" Granted, that could just be a taxanomic bracket. But didnt they sing to the Shepheards when they told of the Incarnation?? I suppose it never directly uses the word "sing" only "praise" and there is an interesting point about gifts being lavished on us that might be above that of the Host, because our ressurected nature is thus.

I honnestly dont know the answers to this.

i think freewill and singing makes us immeasurably greater than angels, i think that is what makes our Praise important to God, after all if He just wanted praise, He has millions of angels doing that, yet He listens to our hearts of praise!
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:33 PM
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i think freewill and singing makes us immeasurably greater than angels, i think that is what makes our Praise important to God, after all if He just wanted praise, He has millions of angels doing that, yet He listens to our hearts of praise!
thats a very fascinating way of thinking about it. It all depends completely on how you interpret what "Praise" actually is. If Praising GOD is simply doing his bidding, then there is no need for song, the Author would simply mean that the throne room is doing Opus Dei all day long, that could be anything.

I think their must be levels of freewill, Host must have SOME free will, or else it would be impossible for a Rebellion to occure...but I understand fully the absolute point your making in distinguishing between one and the other, and their is logic to that reasoning.

I dont know. I guess ive always thought of Host singing...but then a lot of the time I think of them with Wings also, and of course there is nothing Scriptural to suppose they can fly...except for VERY specific Host which are usually in The Kings direct Entourage. In Human form, they look human, coz we cant tell them apart...and in the Heavenly Realm they are supposed to be beings of Light, sort of glowing and radiating pulsating thingys I suppose We do have some foolish notions dont we, things we associate with things, that are false...mindue, I love Birds, and if you saw that video I posted of the slo-motion landing of an Eagle Owl...its magnificent and would be fitting of such a creature

if you didnt see it...here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA6XSrM0V_0
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:53 PM
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well, david jeremiah, who is a very well respected pastor here in the states is where i first heard it taught that angels don't/can't sing, and i have researched it myself and found that is what i believe

i do understand what you're saying though

like you said, angels had to have freewill if a third of them fell

i just think there are quite a few notions that christians believe, and are taken for granted without really thinking about

like angels singing for instance

or what satan looks like

satan is the most beautiful creature/angel, ever created

More lovely than michael or gabriel, he is a creature of light, yet people don't realize that, he was the chief angel after all

i think there are other notions we buy into early on and don't realize or think about, and i try to stay on guard for those types of things

i don't have all the particulars but i still tend to think angels praise by saying not singing so much, but truly i don't think it matters

i think praise is, as you were wondering about, a heart matter, not the action itself

i think millions of idle hyms are sung without having the proper attitude and pure heart every sabbath, they are not praise, imho
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:44 PM
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or what satan looks like
Well, there is three good reasons for that. Four places mention Lucifer in terms of appearence, one in the New Testament that everyone is familiar with, is the Archytpe of the Anti-Christ. Often considered like a dragon. The New Testament mention which everyone knows is of course Eden, and the Serpant.

The third place is from the Roman Catholics. Rome had a number of naughty tricks in trying to convert Heathen, which backfired, spectacularly. The first was the ease of putting Christian Feasts on top of Heathen Feasts so the pagans could still party at the correct time. (The Autumunal Equinox is tommorow you know) anywhooo...the other was whats known as perversion of Ikonography. Due to the fact all symbols are physical tokens that point to something, they have no true meaning in themselves, this means, they can have more then one meaning, it also means, you can put your meaning onto a symbol with another meaning in order to get the desired effect.

What Most Christians consider as Satan, is infact the Pagen goddess of Fertility. You know, big, red, with horns It was used, litterally, to demonize those idols and try and force rejection of them in the heathen culture...unfortunately, it was so effective, modern day christians with no connection to heathen or pagen practises, are still frightened of the Ikon...which of itself isnt bad...but it is untrue. Lucifer doesnt look anything like the pagen goddess of fertility.

The True picture of Lucifer is laid out in Gods Rant against the King of Tyre. The King of Tyre committed the same crime against GOD as Lucifer did. Pride, that his own worth meant more then the Almighty. Ezekiel begins talking about the King of Tyre...but by the 11th verse, its obvious that GOD is talking about someone else.

Here is the verse which most Christians dont even know about, which proves you and I right about Satan

The word of the LORD came to me: [2] "Son of man, say to the ruler [most translations: prince] of Tyre, `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "`In the pride of your heart you say, "I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas." But you are a man and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god. [3] Are you wiser than Daniel? Is no secret hidden from you? [4] By your wisdom and understanding you have gained wealth for yourself and amassed gold and silver in your treasuries. [5] By your great skill in trading you have increased your wealth, and because of your wealth your heart has grown proud. [6] "`Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "`Because you think you are wise, as wise as a god, [7] I am going to bring foreigners against you, the most ruthless of nations; they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom and pierce your shining splendor. [8] They will bring you down to the pit, and you will die a violent death in the heart of the seas. [9] Will you then say, "I am a god," in the presence of those who kill you? You will be but a man, not a god, in the hands of those who slay you. [10] You will die the death of the uncircumcised at the hands of foreigners. I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.'" [11] The word of the LORD came to me: [12] "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "`You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. [13] You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. [14] You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. [15] You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. [16] Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. [17] Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings. [18] By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. [19] All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'"
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:09 PM
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I had another thought on this. When Jesus wanted to demonstrate the worth of man, he did it by showing the worth of something very little, and then explaining that if he loves something worthless so much, how much greater must he cherist something of great value.

He choose to use sparrows, or common birds, as the object of largely insignificant value.

If Sparrows are so worthless comparedto humans, and Song/Music is a devine gift of huge significance...why is it that Birds can sing

IF your theory holds true, that makes the Angels less valuable then my Budgie

Jens can sing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRe6JO65oXc
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