Frankie = the better fighter

[JavierDLC]

Originally Posted by Vizion

What he looked was like the lesser fighter.

Are you suggesting there are merely chronological reasons why he lost?

Its over for Penn. He is done in the LW division

I agree 1000%

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by JavierDLC

I agree 1000%

I dont.

I dont like the guy...but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Frankie Edgar didnt finish Penn either time. I say have Kenny Florian fight BJ Penn. IF Penn fails...or worse...is finished, I say send him to WEC 145lbs. or even WEC 155lbs!

He certainly CANT move up in weight now...he's begining to lose his grip on title level at 155...BUT part of me thinks this may be Edgar also...look at Edgars record....he is a name taker...he beats people he shouldnt be able to...and which others cant.

I still think Penn can beat others in the 155lb division...I think he could be Grey Maynard...if we ever see Maynard Regnant...then Penn stands a good chance at a second Reign IMHO

Remove Edgar...and I fear at 155lbs you'll find BJ Penn is still...for the moment...King.

[Vizion]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

I still think Penn can beat others in the 155lb division...I think he could be Grey Maynard...if we ever see Maynard Regnant...then Penn stands a good chance at a second Reign IMHO

I disagree...I think Maynard would handle Penn too...albeit differently, but I also think there are others guys yet to have a shot who could beat him.

For one, I am not a Penn nutthugger. I usually do not pull for Penn unless he is fighting someone like Deigo Sanchez. The bottom line is that Penn is still one of the best fighters in the UFC. He can outstrike Florian, he can outstrike Meynard and defend the takedown against Meynard, but with a guy like Frankie Edgar that kept BJ guessing all night, it was impossible for Penn to win the ground game or the stand up. Frankie had the absolute nuts for a game plan both times he fought Penn, he is a bad match up for Penn.

Penn looked old, he is used to having the fastest hands when he is in the octagon, he is used to having the superior ground game in the octagon and he got tripped in both counts against Edgar.

Penn refused to let his hands go, and some would say he did, he just caught air. I simply didn't see the determination, or the sudden change for Penn last night.

[Jonlion]

Lets be clear - Edgar showed without doubt this time around that he was better than BJ ina ll aspects. I do think he might be BJ's krptonite, and the fact he is relentless and never standing still means BJ can never settle.

One thing is clear - BJ 's corner was a disgrace - I make jokes about the sort of guidance they were giving.

BJ just repeated the same thing that lost him the last fight - why he didn't use kicks or takedowns from the get go is beyond me. When he tried that he had more luck against Edgar. But then Edgar still had too much.

But for 3 Rounds - he done the same thing and all BJ got told was to "beat up this cocksucker".

He needs a different team and some proper coaches. Delagratte, Hughes, Jackson, etc etc etc would have giving him a better chance.

I take my hat off to Edgar but style makes fights and believe me Maynard will take this belt straight off Frankie with a classic snoozefest.

I still think Florian would beat Edgar as well

Originally Posted by Jonlion

Lets be clear - Edgar showed without doubt this time around that he was better than BJ ina ll aspects. I do think he might be BJ's krptonite, and the fact he is relentless and never standing still means BJ can never settle.

One thing is clear - BJ 's corner was a disgrace - I make jokes about the sort of guidance they were giving.

BJ just repeated the same thing that lost him the last fight - why he didn't use kicks or takedowns from the get go is beyond me. When he tried that he had more luck against Edgar. But then Edgar still had too much.

But for 3 Rounds - he done the same thing and all BJ got told was to "beat up this cocksucker".

He needs a different team and some proper coaches. Delagratte, Hughes, Jackson, etc etc etc would have giving him a better chance.

I take my hat off to Edgar but style makes fights and believe me Maynard will take this belt straight off Frankie with a classic snoozefest.

I still think Florian would beat Edgar as well

I agree with all points on this.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Jonlion

I take my hat off to Edgar but style makes fights and believe me Maynard will take this belt straight off Frankie with a classic snoozefest.

I agree. It will look a lot like the first fight and Maynard will win again in my opinion.

I was most impressed with Edgar's ability to take Penn down so many times. I don't think I've seen anyone take him down so many times with such ease. Even GSP struggled. I believe the way he kept Penn guessing was a huge factor.

I have 2 things to say in regards to Penn in this fight:

1) I never considered him to be a fighter who has much heart. It's the main reason I was never a huge fan of his although you have to respect his abilities. Most of his losses have come because his will has been broken. After the 2nd round I think he was mentally defeated

2) This is the first time in defeat I can remember seeing him in a post fight interview where he seemed humbled in defeat.

[Vizion]

Originally Posted by Jonlion

One thing is clear - BJ 's corner was a disgrace - I make jokes about the sort of guidance they were giving.

They have always been a disgrace...go out there and get him "bra" is usually their best advice. I don't think BJ even thinks he needs their help. BJ is more of a boon to them than they are to him

BJ just repeated the same thing that lost him the last fight - why he didn't use kicks or takedowns from the get go is beyond me. When he tried that he had more luck against Edgar. But then Edgar still had too much.

Wow, the nuthuggers are beginning to bend

But for 3 Rounds - he done the same thing and all BJ got told was to "beat up this cocksucker".

Yea, I noticed that too - what did FE ever do to BJ to deserve that!?? Oh yea, he threatened their meal ticket.

He needs a different team and some proper coaches. Delagratte, Hughes, Jackson, etc etc etc would have giving him a better chance.

Fedor lost his luster in his last fight, Anderson Silva lost his luster in his last fight, but BJ is the biggest loser of them all because he lost twice...in a row and most thought he would roll through FE this time...including most MMA "experts" which would include Matt. FE is a better fighter, period. He has proven it twice, and he has trained better and smarter than BJ and thus earned the respect few have shown him.

I take my hat off to Edgar but style makes fights and believe me Maynard will take this belt straight off Frankie with a classic snoozefest.

I never saw the first one, but I tend to agree.

I still think Florian would beat Edgar as well

This is I disagree with, I think K-Flo would suffer the same fate as BJ not being able to catch FE. I think it would go to dec, but K-Flo is basically done as well as BJ at this point. It will take a series of very unlikely events for either to earn that title shot.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Vizion

Fedor lost his luster in his last fight, Anderson Silva lost his luster in his last fight, but BJ is the biggest loser of them all because he lost twice...in a row and most thought he would roll through FE this time...including most MMA "experts" which would include Matt. FE is a better fighter, period. He has proven it twice, and he has trained better and smarter than BJ and thus earned the respect few have shown him.

The only luster that was lost for Fedor, Anderson, or BJ is the luster that is purported by casual fans who don't properly judge a fighter's body of work. Also, you fail to mention that Silva won.

Fedor, Anderson, and BJ are all still legends of this sport who are on a higher level than most of the people they face. Of course, fighters get old, lose a step, have a bad night, whatever...but the bottom line in all 3 of these cases is simply a clashing of styles. Frankie matches up well with BJ and has shown us twice that he has the skills to beat him.

Does that mean he is automatically a better fighter than BJ? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, only time can truly answer that question. I wouldn't say that Dennis Hallman is a better fighter than Matt Hughes just because he beat Matt both times they fought.