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  #11  
Old 08-20-2010, 05:17 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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I think that's a bit unreasonable to expect though. We don't chastise athletes in other sports for having less than stellar performances when they are injured, but if they go out there and play great while sick/injured they get all sorts of EXTRA praise. They are just human beings and it's normal to for people to put where they are coming from into context, especially when you are in the public eye and have the media asking you over and over again "what was wrong in that fight?".

I don't think it's ALWAYS a knock on the opponent, but fans are literally going to take it that way every time because that's the mentality that presides over the sport today. If a guy is saying something like "my opponent ONLY won because I was *insert injury/sickness here* then that is one thing, but to just mention it isn't a big deal in my opinion.
Ahh, you got this post in before I finished my reply to Ben (you were mentioned).

JB, I know you KNOW darn well that a person can say something (imply it) without literally saying, "my opponent ONLY won because....". In my reply to Ben's post I gave a good example of that with Anderson. Whether he meant it to come off like that or not, that's how he came off to me. In other words if his ribs hadn't been hurt we would have seen a different match. That's all good and well to say AFTER the fight is over with....

And I'm not just picking on Anderson (honestly); he just happened to do that in this most recent fight so I went with him. I didn't like it when BJ did that after his last fight with Matt either. If you're hurt that bad you have to mention it after the fight, then you shouldn't have gotten in the cage in the first place.

And, I'm being perfectly reasonable.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2010, 05:28 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Did you see Anderson bow to Chael?

Did you hear Chael say he believes Silva and actually expected more resistance?

Did you notice Silva complaining about the ribs during the fight? Because he did.

Did you forget that Silva still won the fight and admitted that he anticipated having to fight from his back because of Chael's wrestling?

Silva didn't disrespect Chael by any means by mentioning the rib injury, and even Chael said that.

Yes, I still love you Bonnie, even though your still mad cuz Sonnen fumbled the ball at the one yard line
A gentleman would have left that part out!



No, I didn't see Anderson complaining about his ribs during the fight. But, if you say he did, JB, I believe you. I did see him immediately jump up though after the ref stopped it and I did see him bow. What kind of rib injury did have? I thought any kind of rib injury was very painful and it's hard to move easily without wincing. I didn't see him wince or show pain when Chael was on top of him or when Chael hit him with body shots. Nor when he jumped up with his arms in the air or when he bowed. That's why it made me pause when he said that to Rogan. Like atheletes, I'm only human JB, and can be mistaken. If I'm totally misjudging Anderson or BJ or any of them when they mention an injury after the fight, I apologize.

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Old 08-20-2010, 05:33 PM
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Ahh, you got this post in before I finished my reply to Ben (you were mentioned).

JB, I know you KNOW darn well that a person can say something (imply it) without literally saying, "my opponent ONLY won because....". In my reply to Ben's post I gave a good example of that with Anderson. Whether he meant it to come off like that or not, that's how he came off to me. In other words if his ribs hadn't been hurt we would have seen a different match. That's all good and well to say AFTER the fight is over with....

And I'm not just picking on Anderson (honestly); he just happened to do that in this most recent fight so I went with him. I didn't like it when BJ did that after his last fight with Matt either. If you're hurt that bad you have to mention it after the fight, then you shouldn't have gotten in the cage in the first place.

And, I'm being perfectly reasonable.
The point you didn't address is that we don't do that to athletes in any other setting except MMA/Boxing

You say "weather he meant it or not, that's how it came off to me", well let's be honest...you weren't pulling for Anderson Silva. You were pulling for Chael.

In any other sport, and even with some MMA fans, Silva gets EXTRA praise for even performing while injured let alone coming back WINNING. It's easy to say "if you are hurt don't fight", but that's a bit silly because when you are involved in a HUGE fight, the LAST thing you want to have to do is pull out of the fight, especially if you feel like you can at least still get in there and try. Promoters HATE when guys pull out of fights, weather it's legit or not. Nobody wants to be "that guy".
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:35 PM
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A gentleman would have left that part out!



No, I didn't see Anderson complaining about his ribs during the fight. But, if you say he did, JB, I believe you. I did see him immediately jump up though after the ref stopped it and I did see him bow. What kind of rib injury did have? I thought any kind of rib injury was very painful and it's hard to move easily without wincing. I didn't see him wince or show pain when Chael was on top of him or when Chael hit him with body shots. Nor when he jumped up with his arms in the air or when he bowed. That's why it made me pause when he said that to Rogan. Like atheletes, I'm only human JB, and can be mistaken. If I'm totally misjudging Anderson or BJ or any of them when they mention an injury after the fight, I apologize.

I'm just playing with ya, you know it's all good!

I completely understand what you are saying when it comes to guys making excuses, but I also feel it's another thing in the culture that is "MMA fans" that is largely blown WAY out of proportion.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:00 PM
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The point you didn't address is that we don't do that to athletes in any other setting except MMA/Boxing

You say "weather he meant it or not, that's how it came off to me", well let's be honest...you weren't pulling for Anderson Silva. You were pulling for Chael.

In any other sport, and even with some MMA fans, Silva gets EXTRA praise for even performing while injured let alone coming back WINNING. It's easy to say "if you are hurt don't fight", but that's a bit silly because when you are involved in a HUGE fight, the LAST thing you want to have to do is pull out of the fight, especially if you feel like you can at least still get in there and try. Promoters HATE when guys pull out of fights, weather it's legit or not. Nobody wants to be "that guy".
I'm not sure, but maybe because MMA/Boxing is one-on-one rather than team sports like football and baseball where they have other guys who can take their place if they're injured.

I realize that it's not that easy just to say "I'm hurt, I'm not fighting" because of all the money, etc... that goes into promoting the fight/card, not to mention the missed opportunity for the fighter. So they do deserve credit for getting in there and fighting hurt. They just get extra points from me for not mentioning it. If Rogan or someone else brings it up, then there's not much they can do about it; hopefully they'll couch it in such a way it won't come off as an excuse or taking away from their opponent.

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Originally Posted by J.B. View Post
I'm just playing with ya, you know it's all good!

I completely understand what you are saying when it comes to guys making excuses, but I also feel it's another thing in the culture that is "MMA fans" that is largely blown WAY out of proportion.
Likewise, I do understand what you and Ben are saying.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:58 PM
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I'm not sure, but maybe because MMA/Boxing is one-on-one rather than team sports like football and baseball where they have other guys who can take their place if they're injured.
That is a fair point, however we know that even in team sports it's still mostly about the individual superstars.

Let me paint a picture...

If Brett Favre were to say before a game, "guys I can't play because my rib is injured". The team and the fans would understand that and see him as an "injured player". However, the result of that is going to be Tavaris Jackson as their QB, and that will immediately deplete the chances of them being successful. Now, if the Vikings lose because Jackson throws 3 interceptions, EVERYBODY will say that the "loss" was in part due to Favre's not being able to play, and nobody will really argue that. However, if Favre goes out there and throws 5 touchdowns with a broken rib, he would be hailed as a hero of sorts, and given EXTRA praise for doing it while injured. If we took the same scenario and applied the Sonnen/Silva fight to it, it would be the same thing. Say Favre goes out there with the broken rib and throws 3 interceptions...If he were to lead the Vikings on a 4th quarter comeback to win, nobody would fault him for mentioning the rib injury and he wouldn't even have to because the media would do it for him and praise him the entire time.

Obviously, it is a different culture amongst fans in different sports, and that is completely fine. However, I do believe that guys get a bit too much flack anytime they bring up injuries because of a few knuckleheads who are habitual in claiming they were hurt after a loss or blaming the loss entirely on an injury. It's also weird that we see no problem in granting "extra" praise when a fighter is successful while injured/sick, but we don't like to afford them any "extra" slack for poor performances under the same circumstances.

Honestly, to me personally, I wouldn't even care if a guy came right out and said..."the only reason I lost was because I was injured/sick"...as long as they only say it once and don't harp on it forever in the media like a crybaby. If the guy really feels it was a sickness or injury that cost him the fight, fine then say that, but give your opponent respect as well and don't cater to the media who wants to press you on it later, just avoid the question.
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  #17  
Old 08-21-2010, 04:52 AM
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I didn't like it when BJ did that after his last fight with Matt either.
BJ brought up the injury in his second fight with Matt because everyone was saying he gassed. BJ brought up the fact that it was not him gassing but an injury that caused him to fight the way he did in the 3rd. People also tend to forget that BJ also said after that fight that Matt was a great fighter and deserved to win.

On another note, I find it funny that people are acting like BJ's fans are the only ones who make excuses when he loses. Fans of every fighter do it, hell we do it for Matt. People have brought up that had Matt not stood with GSP in their 2nd fight Matt would have won and people bring up that had Alves not come in over weight Matt would have beat him. Any time someone's favorite fighter loses a person is going to try and find a reason why besides, the other guy is just better. In the end though, there is nothing wrong with that.


Oh and when BJ's smashes Edgar this time I know I'm gonna fool justified knowing that the best LW in the world is once again the UFC champ.
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  #18  
Old 08-21-2010, 10:31 AM
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It would be pretty stupid to state that you have an injury before the fight as you're then giving the opponent something to target!

With the Matt/BJ fight, BJ hurt his rib during the second round, he didn't go into the fight with that injury.
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  #19  
Old 08-21-2010, 04:06 PM
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MMA isn't the only sport where people use excuses for losing.... Boxing is the same way. With that being said when BJ kicks Frankies butt that will be the day James Toney submits Brock Lesnar
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  #20  
Old 08-23-2010, 03:27 PM
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MMA isn't the only sport where people use excuses for losing.... Boxing is the same way. With that being said when BJ kicks Frankies butt that will be the day James Toney submits Brock Lesnar
Correction the day James Toney KO Brock!!
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