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  #101  
Old 02-25-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by County Mike
It really doesn't take much to get Dave going.

I learned about England by watching Robin Hood cartoons. I think I've got it pretty well figured out.
I learned about England by drinking tea and neglecting my oral hygene. I thin kI'm pretty much covered too!
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  #102  
Old 02-25-2009, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke
War of 1812??? when the americans tried to expand their borders into lower and upper canada and couldn't? i would call that losing the war, when you main objective was thwarted ...
That wasn't the main objective.

There were several immediate stated causes for the U.S. declaration of war. First, a series of trade restrictions introduced by Britain to impede American trade with France, a country with which Britain was at war; the U.S. contested these restrictions as illegal under international law.[3] Second, the impressment (forced recruitment) of U.S. citizens into the Royal Navy. Third, the alleged British military support for American Indians who were offering armed resistance to the United States.[4]

The dang Brits occupied Canada so we had to whoop up on 'em there because England was too far away.
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  #103  
Old 02-25-2009, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by County Mike
The dang Brits occupied Canada so we had to whoop up on 'em there because England was too far away.
Yeah WAR AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!
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  #104  
Old 02-25-2009, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llamafighter
I learned about England by drinking tea and neglecting my oral hygene. I thin kI'm pretty much covered too!
...and we will do Tea, my good chap, when we meet in the Big Appple
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  #105  
Old 02-25-2009, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by County Mike
That wasn't the main objective.

There were several immediate stated causes for the U.S. declaration of war. First, a series of trade restrictions introduced by Britain to impede American trade with France, a country with which Britain was at war; the U.S. contested these restrictions as illegal under international law.[3] Second, the impressment (forced recruitment) of U.S. citizens into the Royal Navy. Third, the alleged British military support for American Indians who were offering armed resistance to the United States.[4]

The dang Brits occupied Canada so we had to whoop up on 'em there because England was too far away.
The French and British have never fully been friendly with one another. Even now, with the Channel Tunnel. You come through on the Euro-Star Train and go right past dover. The first stop is...WATERLOO

But the reason we probably put sanctions on the US...was because France cost us our Collonies in the Americas, backstabbing buggers ....and There was no "International Law" prior to The United Nations...so nice try...not that the United States cares about International Law unless its a violation ON them rather then BY them

...and Damn right we would support any American resistance. If we could become allies with a Natvie American force, we could cause a revolution and take back what belongs to us.

Good job we are your allies now huh
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  #106  
Old 02-26-2009, 02:49 AM
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Normally I avoid the political discussions on this forum, but one thing I have never understood is how anybody can be anti-union. I am a PROUD union lineman out of local 70 in Washington D.C., and have been a member of the local for almost 8 years. Unfortunately, there are many lazy people in the unions, this is true, but I have worked since the age of 15, and I have never been on ANY kind of job where there hasn't been lazy people that aren't worth the money they are paid. EVERY job I have ever worked has had lazy people that should be fired and replaced, from washing dishes at fifteen years old, to building powerlines at 25 years old. I worked in a couple of factories outside of high school, and I have to say that was the worst working experience I have ever had. My pay was 7.00 an hour to bust my ass toting hundreds of pounds of steel a day in a factory in Waukegan IL. The working conditions were miserable, hardly anybody there spoke english, and there was NO training even offered. On top of that, there was no health benefits, and I really didn't care for their retirement plan. To top it off, when I was hired the plant manager told me that I shouldn't disclose the amount of money I was making to anybody I worked with, because with me being hired on I was being payed MORE than some employees that had been there for 15-20 years. I had no work experience in that trade, zip, zero, zilch. Yet I was making more money? How is that fair? That is also the only job I have ever been fired from. The reason that was given... I wasn't fulfilling my duties. I asked how I could be expected to do my duties without proper training of what my job description consists of, and the answer was that I should learn my duties. Nice place, huh? A friend of mine from high school continued working there after I was fired, and I found out that I was fired and an older hispanic man was brought in at the bare minimum wage to take over my job. He also told me the man hardly ever showed up to work, and did a horrible job. That was really worth saving the extra 1.25 on the hour, wasn't it?

I would like to ask an honest question, without pissing anybody off. How many of you forum members here could do my job? Most average people are afraid of the typical 120 volt circuits that run through the walls in their homes. I have worked energized feeders here in VA, which uses the highest distribution voltage in the country, at a voltage of 19,920 volts. (Or 34.5kvY for any other linemen here.) I have hotsticked transmission lines at heights of 175' and voltages of 500kv(kilovolts.) 500,000 volts!! If you want a real rush, let me tell you, there is nothing in the world like working on hot powerlines. Other than the obvious hazards associated with what I do (electrocution, flash burn, falling) there is also a lot of mental stress associated with the physical aspects of my job. When hurricanes come through, those powerlines don't put themselves back up. So... that means Timmy and thousands of other lineworkers pack up their belongings and drive 3 day drives to the middle of ground zero from wherever they happen to be at the time, and they stay for an undetirmined amount of time. Anybody that has ever been in the area of where a hurricane has gone through can tell you the air is not pleasant. It is very hot, un-Godly humid, and the bugs are terrible. You are bitten day in and day out, your feet get jungle-rot, and heat-sickness becomes a very real thing. Added to all that, you are a thousand miles from your family and friends, which really plays Hell on relationships. You face the possibility of dying a thousand miles from home, a hard fact of life that our soldiers deal with everyday and my sincerest thankyous are extended to them, from a force that God may have never intended for us to have our hands on. Electricity is a monster...

My union negotiates my wages for a reason. In the early days of powerline work, there was a 1/2 fatality rate. One in two!! Linemen worked long hours were paid poorly and there was no such thing as benefits. My Union offers top quality training, that I am proud to pass on to the apprentices that I work around on a daily basis. This training has helped to keep me sharp on the job so I can go home at night, become certified in running cranes and other heavy equipment, and I even have a Class A CDL liscense. I never foreseen any of this sweating my ass off in that factory in Waukegan. The contractors that I work for pay anywhere from 16%-25% of what I gross into an annuity fund, which isn't doing so hot these days, and my medical insurance is outstanding. I make a decent wage, but here in VA it is a right-to-work state. There are many other non-union contractors working on the same system that I am, yet they make more on the hour. My hourly wage is 30.06 per hour for a journeyman lineman. A non-union lineman's hourly wage is closer to 36. However, they pay their own retirement and pay for there own medical insurance out of their own pocket, which makes ther hourly wage roughly 23 something an hour. So I should take a paycut of 13 dollars an hour to do my job? Is that fair? I mentioned the quality of our training, and I will put the finished product of our union labor, and I am not speaking for all unions I am speaking for mine, against ANY of our non-union competitors. Look up the statistics of lost-time accidents of union electrical workers vs. non-union. We have a safer track record, higher production rate, and a better over-all quality product. As for the laziness angle, I invite anybody on this forum to come work with me and my guys for a week, and I will GLADLY arrange to come and do your job for a week(barring military service, because that is the one job that I truly could not do, and my hat goes off again to those that do.) If after that week you still percieve union workers lazy, then I will concede on any argument that I have because you will have proven yourself to truly be ignorant.

I DO NOT deserve to make less money. I DO NOT deserve to be fired and have four other employees brought in to replace me for BEANS and be underpaid for a job like this. But then again, hey if you want my job, I'll give you the last of my dwindling retirement portfolio if you survive one week without any kind of serious injury.

I didn't post this to be drawn into an argument about union related issues, or political things. I just wanted to paint the picture from my perspective. Thank you
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  #107  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:28 AM
Chuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyja
I am a PROUD union lineman out of local 70 in Washington D.C., and have been a member of the local for almost 8 years.

My Union offers top quality training, that I am proud to pass on to the apprentices that I work around on a daily basis. This training has helped to keep me sharp on the job so I can go home at night, become certified in running cranes and other heavy equipment, and I even have a Class A CDL liscense.

Look up the statistics of lost-time accidents of union electrical workers vs. non-union. We have a safer track record, higher production rate, and a better over-all quality product.

I DO NOT deserve to make less money. I DO NOT deserve to be fired and have four other employees brought in to replace me for BEANS and be underpaid for a job like this.
Excellent post!!!

Bravo!!
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  #108  
Old 02-26-2009, 04:06 AM
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Neezar Neezar is offline
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There are always exceptions to the rule.


I still think the union sucks in the Auto industry.
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  #109  
Old 02-26-2009, 04:09 AM
logrus
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Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
huh?

I figured if I made it as vague as possible I wouldnt see a 3 day ban.
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  #110  
Old 02-26-2009, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyja
I have never understood is how anybody can be anti-union.
I understand the historical reasons for why unions exist and they are very good reasons. Working for a corporation used to be no better than slavery, you were essentially owned by the company that you worked for and, as soon as you could no longer produce, you were cast out into the street and forgotten. So I agree with why unions need to exist. However, they have become so bloated and corrupt that they do more harm than good in many cases.

All this talk about what you "deserve" to make is a little distressing. Deserve based on what exactly? The Constitution never once promised us fair wages, healthcare, retirement benefits, homes to live in, or any sort of financial prosperity. Our Declaration of Independence simple offers the opportunity to pursue happiness, it doesn't guarantee any results whatsoever.

I do understand that certain skills command certain wages. As a Graphic Designer with an Associates degree, I "deserve" to be making a minimum of $35 an hour. However, with my talent level and three years of practical, real world experience, I actually "deserve" to be making between $75 and $150 an hour. Now, do I make that much here in Hillsboro, IL? Not even remotely close. So I can choose to do one of three things:

1. Relocate to a different area - which I don't want to do, just like a guy who works for Dell isn't going to want to move to India just to keep his job.

2. Accept a fraction of what I "deserve" in order to make a living.

3. Hold out for only those jobs that will pay me "what I'm worth" and make no money whatsoever.

Obviously I've chosen #2, but I get so much fulfillment out of my job that I don't miss the extra money (except maybe when my rent is due, but that's temporary ).

Now is it fair that American companies can open factories overseas and hire what amounts to slave labor, increasing American unemployment while their profits go up? Of course not! But it's going to be a reality of our world as long as our companies are allowed to relocate overseas. We need to be more nationalistic and punish those corporations who try to outsource their jobs. The government also need to prosecute companies that hire illegal aliens.

We could also do our part as citizens and either boycott or limit purchases from companies that manufacture their products in other countries. Hitting these CEOs in their wallet is the best way to get their attention. For instance, buy a Macintosh computer, not a Dell, and give your money to a company that hires Americans for it's customer service representatives.
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