To remind people what a REAL champion today is

Originally Posted by J.B.

But thats not what people were saying at the time. For instance I remember Dave in particular went off on the same tangent about entertainment value and others referencing Silva being a counter puncher which is why he is boring. Watch, if GSP's next fight ends by KO, everybody will forget they said all this crap.

Is it about the record book? Because Atom keeps beating the same drum that it only matters who you beat and how you beat them, thus making GSP a boring fighter not deserving of respect. I'm not trying to lump what you say in with anybody else, or vise versa, but I have just been raising a pretty simple observation about the way we treat our top stars compared to other sports. I think it's a fair comparison.

I don't think either guy is boring, I just think fight fans are overly cynical, myself included.

Well Dave is an odd fellow, he picks a poster at random and then tries hard to debate the opposite of them. Oddly though he keeps picking you for some reason, and to be honest I don't know why.

I defended Silva in that thread cause I knew it wasn't 100% Silva's fault that Cote wouldn't commit even when Silva put his hands down and just stood there. Thales just kept running and falling down, as a fan I was embarrassed by what was goin on. Can't blame Silva for his opponent lack of anything.

WE do it though in every sport though not just MMA. You and I can easily name players in every sport who should be expected to raise to the top and perform at a high level. Some of it is media based, some of it is contract wise. In MMA its the title holders.

Anyways some fans are just idiots. They cheered Gsp's win, of a decision, yet booed the crap out of Finch. They did the same thing for Brocks last fight, meanwhile they cheered Gsp, and Brock was actually doing something.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by logrus

Well Dave is an odd fellow, he picks a poster at random and then tries hard to debate the opposite of them. Oddly though he keeps picking you for some reason, and to be honest I don't know why.

I defended Silva in that thread cause I knew it wasn't 100% Silva's fault that Cote wouldn't commit even when Silva put his hands down and just stood there. Thales just kept running and falling down, as a fan I was embarrassed by what was goin on. Can't blame Silva for his opponent lack of anything.

WE do it though in every sport though not just MMA. You and I can easily name players in every sport who should be expected to raise to the top and perform at a high level. Some of it is media based, some of it is contract wise. In MMA its the title holders.

Anyways some fans are just idiots. They cheered Gsp's win, of a decision, yet booed the crap out of Finch. They did the same thing for Brocks last fight, meanwhile they cheered Gsp, and Brock was actually doing something.

Absolutely, and thats what I have been saying the whole time. I know I am guilty of some lengthy opinions and criticism of many topics myself, however there are just some double standards amongst fight fans I just don't understand. I'm not even saying it's just people here or anything, just in general.

Of course we are all gonna have slightly different opinions on each individual topic, and us talking about them is important for the sport. However, the thing that really struck me after reading the opinions from last night that are flying all over the web, is that we, as fight fans, are harder on our athletes than just about any sport I can think of, even in their success. The nitpicking and cynicism is brutal in Boxing and MMA.

Originally Posted by J.B.

Absolutely, and thats what I have been saying the whole time. I know I am guilty of some lengthy opinions and criticism of many topics myself, however there are just some double standards amongst fight fans I just don't understand. I'm not even saying it's just people here or anything, just in general.

Of course we are all gonna have slightly different opinions on each individual topic, and us talking about them is important for the sport. However, the thing that really struck me after reading the opinions from last night that are flying all over the web, is that we, as fight fans, are harder on our athletes than just about any sport I can think of, even in their success. The nitpicking and cynicism is brutal in Boxing and MMA.

MMA and Boxing is an individual sport. SO its easier for a fan to pin point certain issues and then beat it to death. With team sports its much harder. We blame the defense, the offense, the coaching, certain positions, and in some cases like in the Packers game, those damn Zebras lol. Add in that its often easier to remember a fighters last fight because we as fans talk about it to death instead of say a baseball game.

When you look at it, some of the fans feel that an MMA fight is nothing more then a Boxing match with smaller gloves inside a cage. Often times they booo any form of a great ground game cause the fighters are not sluggin it out. For me personally this wasn't a great ground game or BJJ at its finest. It was simply a stronger guy holding another down and advancing the position to keep it from being stood.

look lets be real...GSP had opportunites to ground n pound and what not and he didnt take them. that being said GSP not standing up with Hardy is no different then Anderson not going to the ground with any of his opponents. besides there is a good chance his next fight against maia will look identical to the leites fight considering the fact that Demian doesnt have the wrestling to get silva down so he'll probably do exactly what Leites tried to do in which case if Anderson fights (or in this case doesnt fight) the same way against maia then I too will be more than happy to call a spade a spade.

Originally Posted by Maldonado136

that being said GSP not standing up with Hardy is no different then Anderson not going to the ground with any of his opponents.

that's not a good comparison, because

the last times anyone took anderson to the ground, he finished them from the ground.

that would be like GSP KO/TKO'ing hardy or alves in the standup. which he did not do. so, that comparison holds no water.

also, GSP shows an extreme urgency and fear of being on the feet. wheares, anderson does not give a crap if he is taken down. just like randy couture said about anderson... throwing flying knees and crazy jumping maneuvers at your opponents is not exactly the technique of choice when you are afraid of being taken down... especially by olympic level wrestlers and BJJ black belts.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by logrus

MMA and Boxing is an individual sport. SO its easier for a fan to pin point certain issues and then beat it to death. With team sports its much harder. We blame the defense, the offense, the coaching, certain positions, and in some cases like in the Packers game, those damn Zebras lol. Add in that its often easier to remember a fighters last fight because we as fans talk about it to death instead of say a baseball game.

When you look at it, some of the fans feel that an MMA fight is nothing more then a Boxing match with smaller gloves inside a cage. Often times they booo any form of a great ground game cause the fighters are not sluggin it out. For me personally this wasn't a great ground game or BJJ at its finest. It was simply a stronger guy holding another down and advancing the position to keep it from being stood.

We do those same things with fighters. We blame their offense, we blame their defense, we blame their training camp or cornermen, and in many cases we blame the refs and judges too.

Granted, there are a lot more baseball, basketball, and football games every year then there are fights, so I understand why volume of productivity is much different. Thats why us fight fans HAVE to beat these topics to death, because the volume of fights to talk about is relatively small in comparison, depending on how hardcore you actually follow it. Me personally, between Boxing and MMA, I always have new things to talk about when it comes to fights, but the more casual fans don't follow it as much as somebody like me, or even most people here.

Some fans are ignorant to the specifics of MMA and Boxing alike, but regardless of that, the sports still thrive off of the casual fans, which is why the entertainment value IS so important. However, as a hardcore fan, it's hard for me to get mad at fighters who go out and dominate by executing a gameplan and having superior talent and skill, even if it's not the most thrilling fight every time. Just like in all sports, defense and gameplanning is not traditionally the glamorous part of competition when compared to the flashiness of great offense. However, it takes the total package to truly be the best in this game that is as much, if not more, mental as it is physical.

Originally Posted by Maldonado136

look lets be real...GSP had opportunites to ground n pound and what not and he didnt take them. that being said GSP not standing up with Hardy is no different then Anderson not going to the ground with any of his opponents. besides there is a good chance his next fight against maia will look identical to the leites fight considering the fact that Demian doesnt have the wrestling to get silva down so he'll probably do exactly what Leites tried to do in which case if Anderson fights (or in this case doesnt fight) the same way against maia then I too will be more than happy to call a spade a spade.

LMAO, and that my friend is why it was a bore fest.

Originally Posted by que

that's not a good comparison, because

the last times anyone took anderson to the ground, he finished them from the ground.

that would be like GSP KO/TKO'ing hardy or alves in the standup. which he did not do. so, that comparison holds no water.

also, GSP shows an extreme urgency and fear of being on the feet. wheares, anderson does not give a crap if he is taken down. just like randy couture said about anderson... throwing flying knees and crazy jumping maneuvers at your opponents is not exactly the technique of choice when you are afraid of being taken down... especially by olympic level wrestlers and BJJ black belts.

touche. still though you dont think GSP's opponents should be better at sprawling or grappling? it goes both ways. the people who act like every gsp fight is boring are the ones who dont like him for beating their idols. anderson had two underwhelming performances in a row against cote and leites but that didnt mean he was a boring fighter. GSP has two underwhelming performances now as well. I wouldnt call beating up BJ and beating the crap outta fitch and his post serra fight with hughes boring. that being said I wont dispute the fact that he has become gunshy since the serra fight now I dont know if thats him being nervous to strike or if that is greg jacksons advice to always take the fight to where youre strongest. I'm still baffled that Jackson told gsp to not pass the guard until 30 seconds was left in the round.

Originally Posted by logrus

Cause they forgot the names of the two cowards he was fighting. Besides in the record book one of those fights is considered a TKO. Not to boring. Only 1 title defense went to a decision, due in large to a fighter who did everything short of pulling a "Kalib". Moves up in weight and makes short work of a former champ and a guy who tested positive for pain meds lol.

I don't blame Silva as much as I blame Cote and Thales for not wanting to be there.

Nice to see you change your op like good ol Chicago weather.

really? did you just call two people cowards who have stepped into a ring and engaged in the closest thing to legal mortal combat??? really???

by that rational AS could be construed as a coward for refusing to play with them on their level.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by logrus

Nice to see you change your op like good ol Chicago weather.

I missed this little number...

Where did I change my opinion?