Closure of Guantanamo

[NateR]

Nobody cares about the UN's "authority," they have no real power. If the US left, the United Nations would implode.

What it boils down to is people need to understand that we're at war. You don't win a war by respecting the civil rights of your enemies. Even Abraham Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus during the Civil War. Habeas corpus prevents prisoners from being unlawfully detained. Why did Lincoln allow for the unlawful imprisonment of Southern soldiers? Because he wanted to win the war, of course!

We need to have the same attitude if we plan to win the War on Terror.

I am all for whatever it takes to win the war on terror. I don't want to know about the specifics, but I just want us to be as safe as possible. If that means "getting" info from these whack jobs then so be it. if it saves lives let the CIA or whoever do what they got to do. These terrorists don't play by any rules. In order for the benefit of the good we may need to get a little dirty.

[Spiritwalker]

Originally Posted by NateR

Many people assume that these are just innocent bystanders who were rounded up off the street and locked up in prison by the evil Americans. That couldn't be more false, these were combatants who were found on the battlefield and have every intention of killing Americans. We keep them because they are useful, we can get information out of them. Information that saves the lives of American troops and civilians. If they were completely oblivious and innocent of the charges, then they would be useless for information and we would have no reason to detain them.

Dude.. I completely, totally, 100% agree with you!


I don't get it. You seem to push back at a lot I say that we actually agree on.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Spiritwalker

Dude.. I completely, totally, 100% agree with you!


I don't get it. You seem to push back at a lot I say that we actually agree on.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying. Does it seem like I'm deliberately trying to disagree with you, even though we agree on an issue?

[Bonnie]

I saw the story Spirit posted on Headline news earlier today and they said how many of those released so far had gone back to their terrorist groups (no surprise).

We ought to find a way to "tag" the bastards. You know how they place tags under the hides of cattle and pets. Why not put them to sleep and tag them with individual id#s that we can track. I know some of you may think that's a crazy idea, but they do that with cell phone towers/pings and GPS, and, as stated above, look at the info they can fit on a miniscule computer chip. So, all you computer geniuses on this board, why don't you get to work!

Who knows, maybe someone out there has already thought of this and is developing something as we speak.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by NateR

Nobody cares about the UN's "authority," they have no real power. If the US left, the United Nations would implode.

What it boils down to is people need to understand that we're at war. You don't win a war by respecting the civil rights of your enemies. Even Abraham Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus during the Civil War. Habeas corpus prevents prisoners from being unlawfully detained. Why did Lincoln allow for the unlawful imprisonment of Southern soldiers? Because he wanted to win the war, of course!

We need to have the same attitude if we plan to win the War on Terror.

Excuse me...but without the rest of the world you will never win this war. Its a permanet ongoing thing anyway...like I pointed out, there will always be extremists and terrorists.

The United Nations would do fine without the United States...it would probably move to Central Europe where the Court of Appeals and the Human Rights Courts are...incase you hadnt realized...The United States pretty much ignored the United Nations ever since it violated International Law...You only eve use it when you dont want to actually mount a campaign...for example...you dont really want to invade Palastine...soo you turn to the United Nations...but it doesnt fool the rest of the world into believing that The United States actually values the UN at all. Look at Lebannon, that was another place. Rather then punish Israel when she steps out of line, you leave it to the United Nations....You kinda cant have it both ways...if you dont respect and use the UN in times of strife...why do you expect them to help you or listen to you at all?

In a Consortium it doesnt work when one person out of a number of equals says "I know what is right and I'm doing it whether you listen to me or not" and then when a Allied Force (like Israel) gets into trouble (Like Leb or Pal) go running to the Consortium and say "I really think we should work together to tackle the issue of Terrorism here" That is EXACTLY what the Bush Administration have bassically done...and they wonder why some Europeans do not understand America.

Now the United Nations later sanctioned the Iraqi war in terms of clear-up opporations...but you need to be fully aware that its not just American Forces who are in that war...its a number of Countries...when will America start to LISTEN to her Allies, when she wants to do something OUTSIDE her jurisdiction? Because with friends there is mutual respect...sometimes the way some of you speak about the rest of the world...countries that have breeched international Law on your behalf, countries whose forces have also perished..it feels more like abuse then friendship. You dont tell your friends you love them...when honnestly you dont care about their views or how they feel.

The Good thing about Barack Obama is he has pledged to listen. He may not aggree with world opinion, and he may not follow it...but at least he will hear us out before he plunges headlong into something. That I can respect. I can respect a person who listens to me and dissagrees...but I pisses me off if someone just flat out ignores my views...then comes to me for help and support later.

Besides...if you read what I Put...I said I DONT think that any insitution outside of the U.S should try its own Prisoners of War...They ARENT European Prisoners...they are American Prisoners...ergo YOU should put them on Trial..and YOU should hand out the punishment...and you'll notice that I reccomended Death as a suitable and fitting punishment....not permanent detention.

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

In a Consortium it doesnt work when one person out of a number of equals says "I know what is right and I'm doing it whether you listen to me or not" and then when a Allied Force (like Israel) gets into trouble (Like Leb or Pal) go running to the Consortium and say "I really think we should work together to tackle the issue of Terrorism here" That is EXACTLY what the Bush Administration have bassically done...and they wonder why some Europeans do not understand America.

Now the United Nations later sanctioned the Iraqi war in terms of clear-up opporations...but you need to be fully aware that its not just American Forces who are in that war...its a number of Countries...when will America start to LISTEN to her Allies, when she wants to do something OUTSIDE her jurisdiction? Because with friends there is mutual respect...sometimes the way some of you speak about the rest of the world...countries that have breeched international Law on your behalf, countries whose forces have also perished..it feels more like abuse then friendship. You dont tell your friends you love them...when honnestly you dont care about their views or how they feel.

Dave, it never ceases to amaze me how you can spin such a huge web of crap. You can't run a country (nor a business) the way you handle personal friendships. Find a boss who tries to make himself an equal or tries to be friends with or please everyone and you will find a business in decline. You must have a leader, and we were put in that role and we did a fine job, IMO.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

The Good thing about Barack Obama is he has pledged to listen. He may not aggree with world opinion, and he may not follow it...but at least he will hear us out before he plunges headlong into something. That I can respect. I can respect a person who listens to me and dissagrees...but I pisses me off if someone just flat out ignores my views...then comes to me for help and support later.

I must have missed that pledge.


Dave, can you answer a question for me? Where does Obama stand on the Israel issue right now?

[Spiritwalker]

Originally Posted by NateR

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying. Does it seem like I'm deliberately trying to disagree with you, even though we agree on an issue?

Maybe it's your/my writing style.. maybe I am a sensitive baby... we have "Clashed" like this before.

I could be taking it wrong... I post things that in general aggree with your post.. or you me, but it get the "talked down up" feeling..

I don't know. Maybe this would have been a better thing to PM about.

No offense.

Originally Posted by Bonnie

I saw the story Spirit posted on Headline news earlier today and they said how many of those released so far had gone back to their terrorist groups (no surprise).

We ought to find a way to "tag" the bastards. You know how they place tags under the hides of cattle and pets. Why not put them to sleep and tag them with individual id#s that we can track. I know some of you may think that's a crazy idea, but they do that with cell phone towers/pings and GPS, and, as stated above, look at the info they can fit on a miniscule computer chip. So, all you computer geniuses on this board, why don't you get to work!

Who knows, maybe someone out there has already thought of this and is developing something as we speak.

that is actually i pretty good idea, i don't know how expensive it would be, but it does seem like it could help possibly lead us to more terrorist headquarters, it could allow us to not only track them, but also find more

[Spiritwalker]

Nothing but love fer ya guy.. but....

WTF are you talking about?

Without the US, the UN would do what they always do.. ask "big brother"..
Iseral is BIG deal. I would love to go and take over the whole place, then I could visit it without fear of dying. But the whole world has an interest in that area. Just about every religion references back to this area. If we went in to make the place safe for the people, even the people we made safe, would hate us. The UN acts on the will of the assembled nations... If we want to do something that other nations will hate us for.. we get UN sanctions.

Which International Law was broken? Be very specific. Do your research on this one.

As far as the prisoners.. it's a good thing we didn't go running of to The Hague or our gallows.. or killing them out right.. turns out there are some that were innocent.. I would like to see the ones that are part of the plots against America have their brians sucked dry of any information and then made to rot in a cell with nothing but pictures of PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T EVEN CARE.. people who couldn't point the middle east on a globe.. but were killed to make a statement.

We the UN Sanctions against Iraq were failing.. we said "enough".. DIE.

Fine with me.

Barak.. is Captian Picard.. _ Klingons show up.. "Hey guys.. let's go talk about this...".. as the Klingons keep getting closer and closer..

Bush is Kirk .. "Klingons??? Here?? F'ing Fire Phasers.."

And the UN complains ... and says let's talk... as the Klingons pull back the other fist.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Excuse me...but without the rest of the world you will never win this war. Its a permanet ongoing thing anyway...like I pointed out, there will always be extremists and terrorists.

The United Nations would do fine without the United States...it would probably move to Central Europe where the Court of Appeals and the Human Rights Courts are...incase you hadnt realized...The United States pretty much ignored the United Nations ever since it violated International Law...You only eve use it when you dont want to actually mount a campaign...for example...you dont really want to invade Palastine...soo you turn to the United Nations...but it doesnt fool the rest of the world into believing that The United States actually values the UN at all. Look at Lebannon, that was another place. Rather then punish Israel when she steps out of line, you leave it to the United Nations....You kinda cant have it both ways...if you dont respect and use the UN in times of strife...why do you expect them to help you or listen to you at all?

In a Consortium it doesnt work when one person out of a number of equals says "I know what is right and I'm doing it whether you listen to me or not" and then when a Allied Force (like Israel) gets into trouble (Like Leb or Pal) go running to the Consortium and say "I really think we should work together to tackle the issue of Terrorism here" That is EXACTLY what the Bush Administration have bassically done...and they wonder why some Europeans do not understand America.

Now the United Nations later sanctioned the Iraqi war in terms of clear-up opporations...but you need to be fully aware that its not just American Forces who are in that war...its a number of Countries...when will America start to LISTEN to her Allies, when she wants to do something OUTSIDE her jurisdiction? Because with friends there is mutual respect...sometimes the way some of you speak about the rest of the world...countries that have breeched international Law on your behalf, countries whose forces have also perished..it feels more like abuse then friendship. You dont tell your friends you love them...when honnestly you dont care about their views or how they feel.

The Good thing about Barack Obama is he has pledged to listen. He may not aggree with world opinion, and he may not follow it...but at least he will hear us out before he plunges headlong into something. That I can respect. I can respect a person who listens to me and dissagrees...but I pisses me off if someone just flat out ignores my views...then comes to me for help and support later.

Besides...if you read what I Put...I said I DONT think that any insitution outside of the U.S should try its own Prisoners of War...They ARENT European Prisoners...they are American Prisoners...ergo YOU should put them on Trial..and YOU should hand out the punishment...and you'll notice that I reccomended Death as a suitable and fitting punishment....not permanent detention.