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  #11  
Old 01-23-2009, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke
I really don't think it is a bad idea .. what is there about 5-600 prisoners? are keeping them in gitmo really going to make a difference? send them to switzerland and get it over with .. use the resources for something better ... most of these guys will probably never go back as soldiers and the ones that are stupid enough to will either be killed in battle and probably won't have any impact on strikes against the west ... but you may be right ... imagine the fall out that would happen if another attack on US soil occurs and it turns out that the mastermind was a released gitmo prisoner ... i don't think it would happen, but you never know ... i just think the US should not bother with these pawns and worry about the masterminds ..
I heard on the radio tonight that 61% of released terrorists prisoners have been proven to go back into terrorism. Now add how many we can't prove but suspect. Now add how many that we haven't located or have no clue what they are doing now or where they are.

I could not bring myself to believe that someone who has sacrificed their lives for 'their cause' would not get out and go straight back into it. If they did then wouldn't it have all been in vain?

I think this is a terrible idea. You can't try these people in American/public courts. Think of the secret intelligence that would possibly have to be revealed. Not to mention that these aren't your ordinary crimes where you have evidence that would fall into our guidelines of your straightforward criminal cases. It would be a fiasco/diasaster. By the time you got all the kinks worked out they would all be free on technicalities.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2009, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
So whats your plan of action? Keep them all without Trial? Thats not very American...I suppose you could quickly set up a Trial and inprison them all that way, but thats not in the interests of Freedom.

Did you not know Bush was trying to shut it down aswell?
These are prisoners of war, not common criminals. It's a different thing. They can't be tried by a jury of their peers, because their peers hate America and have no respect for our laws. America's justice system only applies to American citizens, because only American citizens are subject to American law. You need to start being a little more nationalistic in your thinking, because I can guarantee these terrorists are. We're not a one-world government yet. We will be when the Anti-Christ takes over and let's hope that's not anytime soon.

These are very dangerous men who have every intention of carrying out more attacks and killing more Americans. If we let them go, they're just going to go back to committing acts of terrorism against the US.

That's why closing Gitmo down prematurely is a very bad idea, because you're just sending enemy combatants back out onto the battlefield. POW camps have existed in every war, and that's all this place is. Anyone with a basic knowledge of world history would know that, unless they've been brainwashed by the silly liberal rhetoric that's been infecting our news media over the last 7 years.

Seriously, sometimes I wonder if the left-wing liberals are in league with the terrorists with the way they fight for the rights of terrorists while trying to strip American citizens of our basic Constitutional rights.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2009, 04:58 AM
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Here's my problem with it, and when I say "my problem" I mean, a lot of people's:
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Since October 7, 2001, when the current war in Afghanistan began, 775 detainees have been brought to Guantánamo. Of these, approximately 420 have been released without charge. As of May 2008, approximately 270 detainees remain. More than a fifth are cleared for release but must nevertheless remain indefinitely because countries are reluctant to accept them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantan...detention_camp

Either someone screwing the pooch as far as prosecution goes, or we're detaining people unlawfully. Something had to give.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2009, 05:10 AM
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*Shrug*

It should be illegal to hold somebody forever without bringing them to trial,
its BS what we're doing, he don't even have anything on a lot of these guys.

That doesn't mean they aren't guilty, but we can't play unfair then be pissed when other people play unfair,
we should be treating them fair, and charging them and putting them on trial,
or letting them go.

What happened to lead by example?
I feel like the US is more of a "Do as a say not as a I do" country lately.
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2009, 09:35 AM
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obama just accomplished in his first week of presidency what bush should have done 8 years ago. things are looking good thus far.
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  #16  
Old 01-23-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle
This is a big mistake and i really dont care how or what kind of interrogation tactics we use to get information from these SOB's....In America you are innocent until proven guilty but 1st their not Americans 2nd their not held in America 3rd they don't go by the>>>>>>Geneva convention <<<<<< so any BS you give me about them being held by Americans and so on and so on is out the door. These people are there for a reason.

They should not close the prison i don't care if there's only a 100 prisoners in there. We need to have a place to keep them locked up. I really can care less if they ever get a trial they can rot behind bars for all i care When that place close's they will transfer some terrorist to other prisons but they will let some go. Sorry if I seem a little disgruntled today but this is a touchy subject for me as you all know.
I thought they were held at a Military base...even if its off US mainland, a Base is still classified as an Embassy...ergo it is US soil....I guess maybe not if they have decomissioned it though....and the Staff opporating the facility ARE American...ergo it doesnt matter who they are holding, if they mean what they say about Freedom, and the are law abiding, then they will hold dear exactly the same sentiments as if Guantanamo was in a Suberb of the Capital.

Its alright letting people rot behind bars if they are guilty, but without a trial how do you know there ARE guilty?

As for interrogation techniques...I assure you whatever Obama says, the waterboarding and stuff will continue, and it must continue, and all other governments will do it in order to protect the masses. Its sometimes the only way to extract information. Thats just a signal that its going back underground so the senior officials can stop admitting they do it
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2009, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR
1)

These are prisoners of war, not common criminals. It's a different thing. They can't be tried by a jury of their peers, because their peers hate America and have no respect for our laws.

2) America's justice system only applies to American citizens, because only American citizens are subject to American law. You need to start being a little more nationalistic in your thinking, because I can guarantee these terrorists are. We're not a one-world government yet. We will be when the Anti-Christ takes over and let's hope that's not anytime soon.

3) These are very dangerous men who have every intention of carrying out more attacks and killing more Americans. If we let them go, they're just going to go back to committing acts of terrorism against the US.

4) That's why closing Gitmo down prematurely is a very bad idea, because you're just sending enemy combatants back out onto the battlefield. POW camps have existed in every war, and that's all this place is. Anyone with a basic knowledge of world history would know that, unless they've been brainwashed by the silly liberal rhetoric that's been infecting our news media over the last 7 years.

Seriously, sometimes I wonder if the left-wing liberals are in league with the terrorists with the way they fight for the rights of terrorists while trying to strip American citizens of our basic Constitutional rights.
1) Then try them infront of a Military Hearing

2) Untrue, if I break the Law in America on my next States Tour I would be tried as an American unless my Country extradites me...I'm also free from British Law whilst in the United States...which means potentially I could hold a Firearm and avoid a 15 year prison Sentance

I dont plan on doing either

3) You cant imprison people on the potential of them doing something they havent yet done. If they havent DONE a crime, they cant be Punished. Its the job of your Law Enforcers to try them if the do a Crime, and your Military and secret Service to stop them if they plan it.

At any rate, you still need a trial to proove they had the potential and were actively plotting.

4) Even in that situation, the people were tried...we dont STILL have Germans locked up from the Second World War awaiting Trial now do we?? Do you

Its only premature if you let them all go with no Trial. You should put them on Trial...and this isnt even a Liberal policy...the Republican President STARTED the proceedure of closing this camp...if you have a bone to pick about this, its with President Bush because all Obama is doing is continuing a proceedure already happening.

Did you realize that? are you gonna level the same charge of co-conspiracy at the last Republican Government that you mention again the Liberals?
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  #18  
Old 01-23-2009, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR
These are very dangerous men who have every intention of carrying out more attacks and killing more Americans. If we let them go, they're just going to go back to committing acts of terrorism against the US.

That's why closing Gitmo down prematurely is a very bad idea, because you're just sending enemy combatants back out onto the battlefield. POW camps have existed in every war, and that's all this place is. Anyone with a basic knowledge of world history would know that, unless they've been brainwashed by the silly liberal rhetoric that's been infecting our news media over the last 7 years.
Prophetic much?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/...nee/index.html

Detainee went from Gitmo to al Qaeda, official says

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Saudi national released from U.S. detention at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in September 2007 is believed to be a key leader in al Qaeda's operations in Yemen, according to a U.S. counterterrorism official.

The Defense Department recently estimated that more than 60 terrorists released from Guantanamo may have returned to the battlefield.

According to the counterterrorism official, freed detainee Ali al-Shiri traveled to Yemen after being released to Saudi Arabia and may have been involved in recent al Qaeda attacks in Yemen, including a car bombing outside the U.S. Embassy in Sanaa last year that killed nearly a dozen people.

"He is one of a handful of al Qaeda deputies in Yemen," the official said. "He is one of the top terrorists."

His title is deputy and senior operations commander, the source said.

According to the magazine Sada al-Malahem, or The Echo of the Epics, published by al Qaeda in Yemen, al-Shiri attended a media session in which Yemen commander Abu Baseer was interviewed.

The magazine identified al-Shiri as Baseer's deputy commander and quoted Baseer as announcing that al Qaeda's operations in Yemen and Saudi Arabia have been combined to become al Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula.

The magazine noted that al-Shiri was released from Guantanamo more than 10 months ago.

He fled a Saudi jihadi re-education program, where he went after his release, a Saudi source told CNN's Nic Robertson.

President Obama on Thursday signed an order mandating that the Guantanamo Bay prison be closed within the year. What to do with the detainees has been a hotly debated topic.

The issue of freed detainees engaging in terrorism is one concern. Another is housing them in prisons inside the United States. Video Watch experts debate the Guantanamo dilemma »

Rep. Bill Young, R-Florida, said he has "quite a bit of anxiety" about the possibility of transferring detainees

"Number one, they're dangerous," Young said. "Secondly, once they become present in the United States, what is their legal status? What is their constitutional status? I worry about that, because I don't want them to have the same constitutional rights that you and I have. They're our enemy."

Obama's decision to close the Guantanamo facility received immediate backing from his general election opponent, Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain.

McCain, in a joint statement with South Carolina GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham, said he supported Obama's decision to "begin a process that will, we hope, lead to the resolution of all cases of Guantanamo detainees."

But Thursday night on CNN's "Larry King Live," McCain said the new president may have been hasty in the decision and should have taken the time to consider everything associated with closing the camp before forcing himself into a timetable.

Specifically, McCain said he thought Obama needed to consider what would happen to the prisoners held at Guantanamo before ordering the facility to be closed.

"So, the easy part, in all due respect, is to say we're going to close Guantanamo," McCain said. "Then I think I would have said where they were going to be taken. Because you're going to run into a NIMBY [not in my backyard] problem here in the United States of America." Video Watch what may happen to Guantanamo's inmates »

Asked about that issue Thursday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said, "We have developed some options in terms of how many we think could be returned to other countries to take them. That diplomatic initiative has not started. That will await work in carrying out the executive order."

"We have identified a number of possible prisons here in the United States" that could take the detainees. However, Gates added, "I've heard from members of Congress [representing] where all those prisons are located. Their enthusiasm is limited."
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  #19  
Old 01-23-2009, 08:45 PM
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Has anyone considered the possibility that treating someone innocent in the manner they treat people at Guantanamo, might actually CAUSE someone to want revenge on the host nation?

Supposing you were innocent, locked up for years without a trial and treated badly...when you got out...would you not feel angry and upset? Angry and upset enough to do the very crimes you were falsly imprisoned for out of spite and revenge.

You talk of prophecy..but the last thing you want to do is treat an innocent so badly as a prisoner of war, you turn him into an enemy when he leaves.

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  #20  
Old 01-23-2009, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
we dont STILL have Germans locked up from the Second World War awaiting Trial now do we?? Do you
Well, WW2 ended and the Third Reich collapsed over half a century ago. Our war against Al Qaeda is still going on. And I can almost guarantee that, barring any sort of prisoner trade, none of those German and Nazi POW's were released until Germany surrendered.

Once Iraq and Afghanistan are stabilized and Al Qaeda is completely destroyed, then we can let those men go back to their countries of origin. Until then, releasing them early would just be proof of Obama's incompetence when it comes to warfare and national security. Hopefully, he's not dumb enough to actually do that.

Again, my issue with Left-Wing Liberal nuts is that they will fight tooth and nail for the rights of these terrorists and fully support releasing them back into the wild to kill more American soldiers on the battlefield or civilians through acts of terror. Unfortunately, President Bush was bowing to political pressure to close down Gitmo because of the Left-Wing nutjobs, who have nothing but hatred for America (just like the terrorists).
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