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  #21  
Old 02-27-2010, 03:29 AM
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J.B. J.B. is offline
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Originally Posted by atomdanger View Post
So, say I work at burger king/wal mart, etc.. and have two kids?
I don't deserve healthcare? Because I can't afford it, but I am a hard working tax payer.
(a LOT of jobs offer no healthcare)

See where your idea goes south?
Its sort of sad, anybody who is working and doing all they can deserves healthcare.

So, why not a public option? You could still have private healthcare.
If you have two kids and you are not the store manager of that Burger King or Walmart, you may want to consider another line of employment. Having a job and paying taxes does not entitle a person to health-care. It's sad but true.

A public option would cost a ton of money and bring a whole slew of other problems along with it. I am not saying that our system is perfect by any means, but letting the government come in and try to fix the problem will likely make things worse in the long run.
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  #22  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by atomdanger View Post
So, say I work at burger king/wal mart, etc.. and have two kids?
I don't deserve healthcare? Because I can't afford it, but I am a hard working tax payer.
(a LOT of jobs offer no healthcare)

See where your idea goes south?
Its sort of sad, anybody who is working and doing all they can deserves healthcare.

So, why not a public option? You could still have private healthcare.
If you are a working taxpayer, absolutly you should have some sort of healthcare, my argument was never about the people working but making little. It was about the ones who want everything for free. I dont know what the answer is for healthcare but the way it is in Louisiana with the charity hospitals, seems to work pretty well. What's the charity system like in the rest of the country? Idaho is pretty complicated but they do have a system for the poor.
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  #23  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by atomdanger View Post
I don't deserve healthcare?
This is the root of the problem. The notion that we "deserve" anything. Show me where access to healthcare is granted to American citizens in the Constitution.

You can't because it is not in there and it never should be.

We became the world's sole superpower without any sort of "public option" for healthcare, there is absolutely no reason to believe that we suddenly need it now.
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by atomdanger View Post
So, say I work at burger king/wal mart, etc.. and have two kids?
I don't deserve healthcare? Because I can't afford it, but I am a hard working tax payer.
(a LOT of jobs offer no healthcare)

See where your idea goes south?
Its sort of sad, anybody who is working and doing all they can deserves healthcare.

So, why not a public option? You could still have private healthcare.
In the example you provided, the children would likely already be eligible for S-CHIP and the Burger King worker would likely be eligible for Medicaid. There is no reason to scrap our entire system for things that need "tweaking".
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  #25  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
If the United States had entered the war when the rest of us did and had paid a far bigger price in the first world war, then you wouldnt be left having to pick up the pieces. So you should thank the whole European Generation that died BEFORE your Country saw fit to enter the war, for sacrificing themselves to stop you being the only country left for the Nazi party to invade.

We might be able to do more for Military spending world wide if your Government had not dragged half of us into two major wars in the space of a decade, and at the same time, allowed your greedy citizens to force banks into Government Control in order to be able to survive such a financial burden that is not of our making.

You guys are the ones living in ignorance and adolescence, using big words like socialism, or fascism, when you have bearly ever even seen the likes that some of the rest of us have been fighting on home turf for years. When Washington lies in ruins after three years of nightly blitze, then you may speak about the danger of nationalism. Not until you have a neighbour who threatens to expand his empire and conqure you to increase the wealth of all, may you speak about Communism.

btw, fyi, England kept the sealanes open and managed to do all that you have done for 300 years before we struggled, its taken you less then 80 years to be in minor trouble. Plus we did it when Nations werent placid like they are now, we did it without the use of our allied countries. The whole reason you can fight is down to countries that host you. Where would you be without your Starwars shield...if Europe turned round and expelled your listening posts you'd be quickly having a swift change of heart. I am shocked and appauled to here someone as intelligent as yourself, daring to act superior in a measure where you as a superpower are more dependant on the rest of us, then any other super power before you, and some of us have been record breaking superpowers, and your not likely to become one of those. I'm frankly a little dissapointed in you.

So when you say your prayers at night, you should thank GOD that no matter how badly your Government treats its allies, and no matter how late they are joining the rest of us in global fighting, that we have been, and probably always will be reliable and Loyal to you.
Why do they host us? For our PROTECTION!!! Countries act like they are doing us such a biiig favor by letting us base on their soil but in reality they are doing it because they know that we will help them out of trouble.

Dave, your first paragraph is complaining about us not getting envolved in your war soon enough, and the second paragraph is complaining about you having to get involved in our wars. I'm confused brother.
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  #26  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Play The Man View Post
In the example you provided, the children would likely already be eligible for S-CHIP and the Burger King worker would likely be eligible for Medicaid. There is no reason to scrap our entire system for things that need "tweaking".
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  #27  
Old 02-27-2010, 11:43 AM
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Or maybe if YOU hadn't sat on YOUR thumbs while Hitler was seizing power, then the situation would have never escalated to world war status. It's only because of YOUR incompetence and stupidity that Hitler got as powerful as he did before anyone decided to do anything. Then when YOU realize what a mistake YOU made by YOUR inaction, the first people YOU call for help is America.

So YOU and YOUR cowardly, stupid nation have no room to talk.
The first thing we did was try and barter peace. We are not war-mongers at heart, unlike our Children.

Regardless of our mistakes, we actually paid for them. Look at what we are reduced to now. Let what happened to us be a warning for you. You think you are untouchable, and you complain about carrying the world on your shoulders...but this has been a common trait with America since day one...Her Allies will fight heart and soul for her...but when they ask her to stand by them...

...Your Government decided to make a statment refusing to back Englands right to the Faulklands. Explain to me why you guys never back us up, when we spend our entire foreign policy backing you guys up?? I know, you as a mere civilian cant change that...but do you really and truely think that your best friends deserve slightly more??

That is characteristic of the way the Americans have always treated their closest friends. Not everyone likes you, dont you think you should do as much as possible to keep the friends you have?? I mean that on Governmental Level, not actually you personally, im talking about the behavement of present and past administrations
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2010, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Rev View Post
Why do they host us? For our PROTECTION!!! Countries act like they are doing us such a biiig favor by letting us base on their soil but in reality they are doing it because they know that we will help them out of trouble.

Dave, your first paragraph is complaining about us not getting envolved in your war soon enough, and the second paragraph is complaining about you having to get involved in our wars. I'm confused brother.
Really???

So when we move against the Argentinians to defend our Soverignty, you will protect us will you??

Your gonna protect those governments who backed your plans for starwars before you pulled out and left them high and dry before the Russians??

Just TWO examples in the past SIX months alone.

Again...I know you on a personal level cant do anything about it, but wake up to the fact that probably what motivates countries to host you more then you swareing to protect them...is what might happen to them if they told you where to shove your satalites! Largely what motivates other people when it comes to America is probably more fear. GOD forbid we offend her by exposing the truth of her torture...which is the petty reason Obama is playing games with his most precious Allied Force right now. GOD forbid we be branded part of the axis of evil, or a rouge nation because we dont play by the rules (notice with the U.S, this is a case of do as I say NOT do as I do United Nations Style)
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2010, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
1)This is the root of the problem. The notion that we "deserve" anything. Show me where access to healthcare is granted to American citizens in the Constitution.

You can't because it is not in there and it never should be.

We became the world's sole superpower without any sort of "public option" for healthcare, there is absolutely no reason to believe that we suddenly need it now.
1) no the root of the problem is actually that we have a cultural difference of opinion over the definition of the Governments job. In a Commonwealth Country, the right to have health care, is pretty much as important as your right to bare arms

2) you became a super-power because you were late into World War Two (which removed all the super-powers before, and left you with the only one having money to invest and rebuild) and because the USSR collapsed (something that would have happened with or without the cold war IMHO)

oh...and watch out for China, because your days of being the "sole" superpower are almost up. She is matching you, and probably in the next decade or so, might even surpass you
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Play The Man View Post
I stand by what I wrote. By the way, I agree with much of what you wrote above.

The point I was trying to make is that Western European-style (I include Canada in this) socialism, as it is currently practiced, is not something that is sustainable in the long term. There is an inevitable crash coming due to predictable demographic realities. Modern Western Man (I include many, if not most, Americans in this statement) has opted for adolescence, rather than a purpose-directed adulthood, which takes into account the stark realities of our fallen world. Instead of a life of children, hard work, sacrifice, and patriotism, much of the Western world is opting for leisure, multiculturalism, hedonism, and appeasement.

Europeans are not having enough children to replace themselves. Children require an incredible investment of time, energy, money, sacrifice, etc. Most Europeans (and to a lesser extent Americans) have decided to give up having at least 2 children because they would rather have a life of leisure and comfort. Socialist programs can not be funded when the number of retired, elderly, welfare recipients, etc. exceeds the ability of the working generation to pay for it. Europe has mortgaged its future by importing a huge number of Third World Muslim immigrants to fill the empty jobs left by the European children who were aborted or never conceived. Over the next 100 years, children of these Muslim immigrants will become the majority in country after country in Europe. Good luck if you think they are going to want to pay a huge chunk of their salaries to support elderly European Infidels. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The time to pay the bill is pushed back somewhat because European Socialist countries have been able to "skimp" on military spending (to the tune of billions of dollars each year) by relying on the United States to shoulder the burden. You are correct that the UK performed a similar role throughout much of the 18th and 19th century; however, the UK had a large Colonial Empire, with all the concomitant moral baggage of imperialism. I don't think anyone is proposing a Pax Americana tax on Western Socialist governments, but it would be refreshing if some of the citizens of such socialist countries realized that their lifestyle is being funded on the back of the American GI. (and yes, we do appreciate the sacrifice of the coalition troops in Iraq and Afghanistan - it would be nice if some countries increased the number of troops -- not talking about the UK here)

Sorry to disappoint you. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I still like the Tyburn blogs though.
There you go with "socialist" accusations again

The United Kingdom, might have taxed the collonies to support itself..but hey, what you guys did with the wallstreet wobble a year or so ago, has about equalled two hundred years of tax

"Pax Americana" ...I actually like that...What America is missing, is an Empire. She would be perfect if she had an Empire
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