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  #11  
Old 02-26-2010, 07:43 PM
rearnakedchoke
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
If you only want healthcare for tax paying, employed American citizens, then why do we need the government involved at all? Under that notion, if you want healthcare, then you get a job and pay for it yourself.

This argument is not necessarily against healthcare, it's against big government control of healthcare with the power of life and death over its own citizens. That's tyranny and is not what this country was founded upon.

I am 100% against any form of government run healthcare for American citizens. The best way for our federal government to improve healthcare in America is to get out of the healthcare providing business (this is not referring to the healthcare regulating business, since doctors and drug companies need to be accountable to someone). American citizens should be free to refuse health insurance any time they want and free to pay for it themselves. Or if their employer offers it as part of a job benefit, then that would be considered a perk while working for that employer.

For discussions about the military, government employees, etc., that would fall under the category of healthcare benefits provided by an employer. The same as it would if that person was working for McDonalds or Walmart.

Simply put, healthcare is not a problem that can be solved by our federal government and it never will be.
sorry, i couldn't get this from your statement, but who should the drug companies and doctors be held accountable by? i think you are right, that your system can be improved and work fine without gov't intervention, but without that watchdog, you are going to have high doctor and drug fees and insurance companies with exorbant premiums .... a lot of American's come to Canada for their drugs because it is cheaper ... our Health Canada is just as strict as the FDA when it comes to drug control, but the gov't ensures costs are kept down ... heck, there are even issues with our program that would drop costs so much and the gov't needs to get a hold of it ... but there needs to be a start somewhere ...
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TheConcretekid View Post
"Please only respond if you agree with me and/or are a radical right wing that thinks Glenn Beck has a news program" (it is aired during the unannounced 'opinion time slot' in which nothing discussed has to be founded in reality)
Well, it's better than the "Just shut up and agree with Obama on everything and then we can continue to feed you this illusion of bi-partisanship and open-mindedness" that we're getting from the current administration.

Secondly, are you obsessed with Glenn Beck? Why bring him into this conversation? Is it just because you can't handle the fact that reasonable and intelligent people can examine the evidence for themselves and form an opinion that is directly opposed to yours, that you resort to the cheap tactic of character assassination?

Or did you just always assume that anyone with intelligence would agree with you on everything? If someone disagrees with you, then it must be because they are misinformed or unintelligent?
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:49 PM
rearnakedchoke
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First off chief, I dont watch beck or care about his news or not news program. But if you insist that only right wing people are tax-payers, hey, you said it not me.

The whole point of this post is the feeling that I am hearing from people from all over the country, that the harder they work, the more the libtards want to take from them and give to people who dont want to work at all.

Ask someone to describe a good job and I would be willing to bet that one of the first things that comes up is BENEFITS.

I know people personaly who have said that they dont want to get a job because they wont have it as good as they do on the welfare system, so dont even try and argue this. When people who work have trouble paying bills and feeding families, but those who live on the system get food, rent, healthcare, and a cellphone all on the taxpayers dime, something is wrong.

I hope I dont have to let you all know that the original post had alot of sarcasm in it, but if you dont catch that I dont mind. I'm sure I will sleep just fine tonight.
so are those the only people that use these services? come on ...
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2010, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
sorry, i couldn't get this from your statement, but who should the drug companies and doctors be held accountable by?
That's why I said that the state and federal governments needed to continue to regulate drug companies and health care providers.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2010, 07:53 PM
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Why do you suppose countries like Canada and France are able to do this? It is because since WWII, the U.S. has been shouldering the burden of military spending for "The West". The U.S. spends about 19% of the budget on military spending. This comes out to about 4% of GDP. In contrast, Canada only spends about 6% of its budget on military spending, or about 1% of GDP. France spends between 5 and 6% of its budget on military spending. Why do you suppose these socialist countries are able to "skimp" on military spending? Answer: Because they know that they can rely on the U.S. to protect them and shoulder the vast burden for putting out hot spots, fighting global terror, keeping the sea lanes open, etc., etc., etc. If Canada and France had to spend 19% of their budgets on military spending, I would bet that the generous welfare benefits would dry up quickly. So, when you say your prayers at night, you should thank God for the U.S. soldiers who make it possible for you to live in perpetual adolescence.
If the United States had entered the war when the rest of us did and had paid a far bigger price in the first world war, then you wouldnt be left having to pick up the pieces. So you should thank the whole European Generation that died BEFORE your Country saw fit to enter the war, for sacrificing themselves to stop you being the only country left for the Nazi party to invade.

We might be able to do more for Military spending world wide if your Government had not dragged half of us into two major wars in the space of a decade, and at the same time, allowed your greedy citizens to force banks into Government Control in order to be able to survive such a financial burden that is not of our making.

You guys are the ones living in ignorance and adolescence, using big words like socialism, or fascism, when you have bearly ever even seen the likes that some of the rest of us have been fighting on home turf for years. When Washington lies in ruins after three years of nightly blitze, then you may speak about the danger of nationalism. Not until you have a neighbour who threatens to expand his empire and conqure you to increase the wealth of all, may you speak about Communism.

btw, fyi, England kept the sealanes open and managed to do all that you have done for 300 years before we struggled, its taken you less then 80 years to be in minor trouble. Plus we did it when Nations werent placid like they are now, we did it without the use of our allied countries. The whole reason you can fight is down to countries that host you. Where would you be without your Starwars shield...if Europe turned round and expelled your listening posts you'd be quickly having a swift change of heart. I am shocked and appauled to here someone as intelligent as yourself, daring to act superior in a measure where you as a superpower are more dependant on the rest of us, then any other super power before you, and some of us have been record breaking superpowers, and your not likely to become one of those. I'm frankly a little dissapointed in you.

So when you say your prayers at night, you should thank GOD that no matter how badly your Government treats its allies, and no matter how late they are joining the rest of us in global fighting, that we have been, and probably always will be reliable and Loyal to you.
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  #16  
Old 02-26-2010, 07:57 PM
rearnakedchoke
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
That's why I said that the state and federal governments needed to continue to regulate drug companies and health care providers.
cool .. even with universal health care the docs try and scam the system, even with gov't watching, they find a way around it ...
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2010, 12:25 AM
Rev
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
so are those the only people that use these services? come on ...
I never said that, My point from the begining has been about the ones who want to live on the system. I have no problem with welfare if it is used right. I grew up in a house that did abuse the system and stayed on welfare for years. I know what I am talking about from both sides. It seems like you are trying to bird-dog me and find something wrong what I am saying. Thats ok, whatever floats your boat. But dont expect the same in return, except for sarcasm.
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2010, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
If the United States had entered the war when the rest of us did and had paid a far bigger price in the first world war, then you wouldnt be left having to pick up the pieces. So you should thank the whole European Generation that died BEFORE your Country saw fit to enter the war, for sacrificing themselves to stop you being the only country left for the Nazi party to invade.

We might be able to do more for Military spending world wide if your Government had not dragged half of us into two major wars in the space of a decade, and at the same time, allowed your greedy citizens to force banks into Government Control in order to be able to survive such a financial burden that is not of our making.

You guys are the ones living in ignorance and adolescence, using big words like socialism, or fascism, when you have bearly ever even seen the likes that some of the rest of us have been fighting on home turf for years. When Washington lies in ruins after three years of nightly blitze, then you may speak about the danger of nationalism. Not until you have a neighbour who threatens to expand his empire and conqure you to increase the wealth of all, may you speak about Communism.

btw, fyi, England kept the sealanes open and managed to do all that you have done for 300 years before we struggled, its taken you less then 80 years to be in minor trouble. Plus we did it when Nations werent placid like they are now, we did it without the use of our allied countries. The whole reason you can fight is down to countries that host you. Where would you be without your Starwars shield...if Europe turned round and expelled your listening posts you'd be quickly having a swift change of heart. I am shocked and appauled to here someone as intelligent as yourself, daring to act superior in a measure where you as a superpower are more dependant on the rest of us, then any other super power before you, and some of us have been record breaking superpowers, and your not likely to become one of those. I'm frankly a little dissapointed in you.

So when you say your prayers at night, you should thank GOD that no matter how badly your Government treats its allies, and no matter how late they are joining the rest of us in global fighting, that we have been, and probably always will be reliable and Loyal to you.
I stand by what I wrote. By the way, I agree with much of what you wrote above.

The point I was trying to make is that Western European-style (I include Canada in this) socialism, as it is currently practiced, is not something that is sustainable in the long term. There is an inevitable crash coming due to predictable demographic realities. Modern Western Man (I include many, if not most, Americans in this statement) has opted for adolescence, rather than a purpose-directed adulthood, which takes into account the stark realities of our fallen world. Instead of a life of children, hard work, sacrifice, and patriotism, much of the Western world is opting for leisure, multiculturalism, hedonism, and appeasement.

Europeans are not having enough children to replace themselves. Children require an incredible investment of time, energy, money, sacrifice, etc. Most Europeans (and to a lesser extent Americans) have decided to give up having at least 2 children because they would rather have a life of leisure and comfort. Socialist programs can not be funded when the number of retired, elderly, welfare recipients, etc. exceeds the ability of the working generation to pay for it. Europe has mortgaged its future by importing a huge number of Third World Muslim immigrants to fill the empty jobs left by the European children who were aborted or never conceived. Over the next 100 years, children of these Muslim immigrants will become the majority in country after country in Europe. Good luck if you think they are going to want to pay a huge chunk of their salaries to support elderly European Infidels. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The time to pay the bill is pushed back somewhat because European Socialist countries have been able to "skimp" on military spending (to the tune of billions of dollars each year) by relying on the United States to shoulder the burden. You are correct that the UK performed a similar role throughout much of the 18th and 19th century; however, the UK had a large Colonial Empire, with all the concomitant moral baggage of imperialism. I don't think anyone is proposing a Pax Americana tax on Western Socialist governments, but it would be refreshing if some of the citizens of such socialist countries realized that their lifestyle is being funded on the back of the American GI. (and yes, we do appreciate the sacrifice of the coalition troops in Iraq and Afghanistan - it would be nice if some countries increased the number of troops -- not talking about the UK here)

Sorry to disappoint you. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I still like the Tyburn blogs though.
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  #19  
Old 02-27-2010, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
If the United States had entered the war when the rest of us did and had paid a far bigger price in the first world war, then you wouldnt be left having to pick up the pieces. So you should thank the whole European Generation that died BEFORE your Country saw fit to enter the war, for sacrificing themselves to stop you being the only country left for the Nazi party to invade.

We might be able to do more for Military spending world wide if your Government had not dragged half of us into two major wars in the space of a decade, and at the same time, allowed your greedy citizens to force banks into Government Control in order to be able to survive such a financial burden that is not of our making.

You guys are the ones living in ignorance and adolescence, using big words like socialism, or fascism, when you have bearly ever even seen the likes that some of the rest of us have been fighting on home turf for years. When Washington lies in ruins after three years of nightly blitze, then you may speak about the danger of nationalism. Not until you have a neighbour who threatens to expand his empire and conqure you to increase the wealth of all, may you speak about Communism.

btw, fyi, England kept the sealanes open and managed to do all that you have done for 300 years before we struggled, its taken you less then 80 years to be in minor trouble. Plus we did it when Nations werent placid like they are now, we did it without the use of our allied countries. The whole reason you can fight is down to countries that host you. Where would you be without your Starwars shield...if Europe turned round and expelled your listening posts you'd be quickly having a swift change of heart. I am shocked and appauled to here someone as intelligent as yourself, daring to act superior in a measure where you as a superpower are more dependant on the rest of us, then any other super power before you, and some of us have been record breaking superpowers, and your not likely to become one of those. I'm frankly a little dissapointed in you.

So when you say your prayers at night, you should thank GOD that no matter how badly your Government treats its allies, and no matter how late they are joining the rest of us in global fighting, that we have been, and probably always will be reliable and Loyal to you.
Or maybe if YOU hadn't sat on YOUR thumbs while Hitler was seizing power, then the situation would have never escalated to world war status. It's only because of YOUR incompetence and stupidity that Hitler got as powerful as he did before anyone decided to do anything. Then when YOU realize what a mistake YOU made by YOUR inaction, the first people YOU call for help is America.

So YOU and YOUR cowardly, stupid nation have no room to talk.
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  #20  
Old 02-27-2010, 03:09 AM
atomdanger
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
If you only want healthcare for tax paying, employed American citizens, then why do we need the government involved at all? Under that notion, if you want healthcare, then you get a job and pay for it yourself.

I am 100% against any form of government run healthcare for American citizens. The best way for our federal government to improve healthcare in America is to get out of the healthcare providing business (this is not referring to the healthcare regulating business, since doctors and drug companies need to be accountable to someone). American citizens should be free to refuse health insurance any time they want and free to pay for it themselves. Or if their employer offers it as part of a job benefit, then that would be considered a perk while working for that employer.

For discussions about the military, government employees, etc., that would fall under the category of healthcare benefits provided by an employer. The same as it would if that person was working for McDonalds or Walmart.

Simply put, healthcare is not a problem that can be solved by our federal government and it never will be.
So, say I work at burger king/wal mart, etc.. and have two kids?
I don't deserve healthcare? Because I can't afford it, but I am a hard working tax payer.
(a LOT of jobs offer no healthcare)

See where your idea goes south?
Its sort of sad, anybody who is working and doing all they can deserves healthcare.

So, why not a public option? You could still have private healthcare.
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