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  #31  
Old 02-28-2010, 11:02 AM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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So should our government provide everyone with the same healthcare? If someone works hard and can afford it or has the insurance should they not be allowed to get the best available healthcare just because there are some who cant?

So I have a neighbor who works hard and studies his tail off and goes through college so he can get a good job in an office and not outside sweating like the rest of us. Is it wrong for him to buy American Eagle clothing because he can, while the rest of us can only afford wranglers and levis? Should he be forced to buy wranglers and levis or are we all entitled to American Eagle? (In the name of equality of coarse) Both are going to cover our butts and keep us warm, some are just better quality(look better, feel better, last longer).

In America, (as far as I know) everyone has some type of healthcare available to them, some are just better quality(faster, closer to home, more convenient).
Yes, I learned that last year when we were looking for health insurance to cover my ADT2 Trip....America already has a free health care system for people who cant afford it, its run from some kinda clincs and they are apparently as widespread as any private hospitals...thats why I cant understand Obamas need for this...he already has everyone covered...effectively, the U.S already has a national health service in that way...so whats the big deal??

I've gone well of Barack of late
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  #32  
Old 02-28-2010, 03:46 PM
mscomc
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Originally Posted by Rev View Post
So should our government provide everyone with the same healthcare? If someone works hard and can afford it or has the insurance should they not be allowed to get the best available healthcare just because there are some who cant?

So I have a neighbor who works hard and studies his tail off and goes through college so he can get a good job in an office and not outside sweating like the rest of us. Is it wrong for him to buy American Eagle clothing because he can, while the rest of us can only afford wranglers and levis? Should he be forced to buy wranglers and levis or are we all entitled to American Eagle? (In the name of equality of coarse) Both are going to cover our butts and keep us warm, some are just better quality(look better, feel better, last longer).

In America, (as far as I know) everyone has some type of healthcare available to them, some are just better quality(faster, closer to home, more convenient).
You are doing the exact thing nate tried to do, you are comparing the service of health care to products, like clothing, just like he tried to use the BMW example. To answer your question, YES, i beleive health care is an area where everyone should have the same (give or take) health care. I dont beleive health care is something that should be accessed only by a few, while many cant...for whatever reason (finances, cant get insured etc). So again, just like nate, I think you are trying to compare apples and oragnes.

Now to be clear, I only beleive this about health care. Health care can be a matter of life and death, living in pain, being sick etc. How bad is your life really going to be if you dont have american eagle, and just levis instead? is your life going to end? come on man!

With that said, I do beleive that in other areas of market, if you can afford it, you should be able to get it, and not feel guilty about it. For example: cars, clothes, houses etc.

And in terms of everyone having some kind of healthcare, ok maybe that is true. I am not american. Maybe I dont have an accurate picture. Most of the info I get is: 1) through the news. i try to watch both left and right wing programs to get some picture of the truth. 2) my relatives who are physicans in the states, and who volunteer in these free clinics that people can use. And from what they tell me, those places are some of the worst places. And I saw one for myself on a visit... Health care quality is not just: how close it is, or how fast it is. Its also the quality of doctors you can see (can you see a specialist), the type of medicine you can get (i know that canadian drugs are cheaper for a fact) etc etc.

Anyway, that is just my take on it. I know some disagree with me, but that ok.
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  #33  
Old 02-28-2010, 06:01 PM
atomdanger
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
But, of course, this is just 1,200 isolated incidents and in no way reflects on the quality, or lack of quality, of socialized healthcare in the UK.
195K die a year in the US.
All from "medical mistakes" or "medical neglect" in hospitals.
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  #34  
Old 02-28-2010, 08:50 PM
Rev
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Originally Posted by mscomc View Post
You are doing the exact thing nate tried to do, you are comparing the service of health care to products, like clothing, just like he tried to use the BMW example. To answer your question, YES, i beleive health care is an area where everyone should have the same (give or take) health care. I dont beleive health care is something that should be accessed only by a few, while many cant...for whatever reason (finances, cant get insured etc). So again, just like nate, I think you are trying to compare apples and oragnes.

Now to be clear, I only beleive this about health care. Health care can be a matter of life and death, living in pain, being sick etc. How bad is your life really going to be if you dont have american eagle, and just levis instead? is your life going to end? come on man!

With that said, I do beleive that in other areas of market, if you can afford it, you should be able to get it, and not feel guilty about it. For example: cars, clothes, houses etc.

And in terms of everyone having some kind of healthcare, ok maybe that is true. I am not american. Maybe I dont have an accurate picture. Most of the info I get is: 1) through the news. i try to watch both left and right wing programs to get some picture of the truth. 2) my relatives who are physicans in the states, and who volunteer in these free clinics that people can use. And from what they tell me, those places are some of the worst places. And I saw one for myself on a visit... Health care quality is not just: how close it is, or how fast it is. Its also the quality of doctors you can see (can you see a specialist), the type of medicine you can get (i know that canadian drugs are cheaper for a fact) etc etc.

Anyway, that is just my take on it. I know some disagree with me, but that ok.
Ok.

healthcare IS available to everyone. The poor use it more than the wealthy or middle class, but they have to go to the hospitals and health units that provide those free services. We dont just let people die or hurt. Come on man. If people can afford to get faster and more convenient healthcare they should be allowed and to stop them because others cant afford it is WRONG. that is how my illustration is accurate.
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  #35  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:24 PM
mscomc
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Originally Posted by Rev View Post
Ok.

healthcare IS available to everyone. The poor use it more than the wealthy or middle class, but they have to go to the hospitals and health units that provide those free services. We dont just let people die or hurt. Come on man. If people can afford to get faster and more convenient healthcare they should be allowed and to stop them because others cant afford it is WRONG. that is how my illustration is accurate.
If you had read my post (i can see you cleary didn't), you would know that this is what I disagree with, I beleive it is wrong, when it comes to healthcare.

your healthcare may be available to everyone (via free clincs and other things), but there is HUGE gap in the quality of healthcare. The care at a free clinc (for the poor) vs the care at the Mayo clinc (for the rich). Gimme a break!

I personally saw a 'free clinic' in NYC where a relative of mine was volunteering. The place was full of: prostitutes, pimps, no doubt criminals etc. You wanna take your wife and kid there? I am going to say no. This disparity is wrong. Now maybe my case was an inner city exception, and you dont live in a big city like NYC (do you?).

And you just dont let people die huh? In 2009 it was estimated in the American journal of Public Health that 44,800 excess deaths were caused from lacking health insurance (have no insurace). To me, that is letting people die, maybe you dont see it that way. Fair enough.

http://pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-...-US-adults.pdf

What what about people who are insured, but under insured? Thirty-eight percent of insured individuals report that they or their families experienced at least one problem accessing medical services in the past year. Nearly one-fifth (18%)report that they postponed seeking medical care, 15% had
a problem paying medical bills, 10% did not get a prescription drug they felt they needed, 8% were contacted by a collection agency about a medical bill, and 6% didnít get care they felt they needed.
http://www.kff.org/uninsured/loader....m&PageID=14136 & from the institute of medicine http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2004/Insu...endations.aspx

If you have other data from published and credited research articles like I gave you, please send them my way, maybe I have it wrong.


Anyway I have stated my point, no need to do it again. Lets just agree to disagree. I have my views, you have yours.
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