Children! From Charlie Daniels soapbox!

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Spiritwalker

if two guys want to be together.. then why should it matter to you? If it's just biblical issues.. then that's another thread....

Do you have kids? I have 3 and I dont want gays around my kids. I dont want them to think that it is right. I dont think that it is right. I dont want gays in my church either.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Spiritwalker

so according to your rational...

I am sinful for not knowing something.. AND I am sinful for trying to learn something... and probably sinful for knowing something..

You dont think you sin everyday?

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Spiritwalker

Though I am not shocked by what you said Nate...

One groups talks about relationships between two consenting adults...

The other talks about relationships between an adult and a child.. more often than not.. a VERY underage child..

"Gay Rights".. are talking more about the same "rights" as a heterosexual couple...

pedophilia is more about adult/child sexual relationships... and a child by definition is not an adult... so there can not be a sexual relationship.. form scores of reasons...

SpiritWalker, this is NOT about what Nate believes is right or wrong. And believe it or not it isn't about what you believe the definition of these two groups are either. GO to NAMBLA's website and read some of their arguments. If you are familiar enough with the gay rights movement and their arguments then you will recognize the arguments. If not take a peek at one of the gay advocate sites. It is shocking how NAMBLA is trying to ride right on the coattails of the gay rights movement. The man-on-man is only half their battle. And they are waiting on the gays to conquer that for them. The other half, the age, is only a recent obsticle. Your parent's generation had kids marrying old coggers as a common practice.

So this isn't about what you believe. It is what they are doing.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Spiritwalker

so according to your rational...

I am sinful for not knowing something.. AND I am sinful for trying to learn something... and probably sinful for knowing something..

Well you've totally misunderstood. If I learn something new today about website design, then that means that yesterday I was either lacking that extra bit of knowledge or had a incorrect idea that was only exposed by today's gaining of knowledge. The pursuit of knowledge is not the sin. That's completely a wrong interpretation of what I said. It's the state of ignorance or fallacy that existed before the gaining of knowledge that is the sin.

It would help if we look at the Greek word used in the New Testament for sin: hamartia. This is actually an archery term that literally means "to miss the mark." Which mark are we missing? The mark of perfection. So, the New Testament writers understood sin to be more than just wrongdoing, they understood it to be a continuous state of imperfection. One that separates us from GOD.

So, if perfection is the only way into Heaven (Matthew 5:48 - "Therefore, you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."), then you can see how impossible it is for human beings who are born into a state of imperfection (sin), to make it into Heaven under their own power.

Charlie Daniels is the man.. couldn't have worded it better myself

Originally Posted by timmyja

Charlie Daniels is the man.. couldn't have worded it better myself

true that. charlies a very good man. everyone loves him around here.

[Spiritwalker]

Originally Posted by Mark

Do you have kids? I have 3 and I dont want gays around my kids. I dont want them to think that it is right. I dont think that it is right. I dont want gays in my church either.

I have 2.. a boy that is 9 and a girl that is 7..

I don't really want gay people around my kids.. but I don't feel that I should dictate what two consenting adults do together.

I do have a problem with people that compare homosexuality with pedophilia.

That you don't want your kids around gay people.. sure.. I have no issues with that. But they are not criminals,

God is all about forgiveness, tolerance and being kind to each other..

How would you feel if a friend "came out to you"..

I just don't understand the intolerance from people.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Spiritwalker

God is all about forgiveness, tolerance and being kind to each other..

Well, that's a warped and incomplete view of GOD if I've ever heard it.

Forgiveness, I can understand where you get that from. However, GOD only forgives those who repent. So, a gay man must first admit that he is sinning by committing homosexual acts and stop living a homosexual lifestyle for GOD to forgive him.

Tolerance? Using the actual meaning of the word "tolerance" then maybe I could see where you are coming from with that. But using the modern meaning of the word? Never. GOD is righteous and perfect, He cannot tolerate sin and He will not tolerate unrepentant sin.

Being kind to each other? Yes, GOD wants us to treat others as we would like to be treated. However, that doesn't mean that we have to tolerate, endorse or in any way accept their sinful lifestyle. In fact, the Bible commands us to be holy (set apart) from this sinful world. So by Mark saying that he doesn't want any gay men around his children, he's not only being a good parent, he's being a good Christian.

[Spiritwalker]

Originally Posted by Mark

You dont think you sin everyday?

Man.. that is SO MUCH another thread...

Yes, I do... but...

People possibly do not have the actual Commandments handed down by God to Moses..

Organized religion controls so much about what we know and don't know.. The Church wants to keep their power..

I don't believe that God should be feared.

But at the same time.. I do not believe and religion has it right..

Isn't waste a sin? I would consider it... What about plain ol being inconsiderate?

I would like to believe that God is more of a "grandfatherly" type...

I believe that "we are an experiment"... God wants to see what happens

I want to believe that if life were discovered on other planets people wouldn't condemn that life if they had different beliefs..

I believe that praying to saints is wrong..

I want to believe many things..

I believe that I could be right.. I understand that I could be wrong.

I believe that I have these issues because of the different ways that I was told "this is what God wants".. has put me in the position to trust no "man".

Kinda messed up isn't it.

[Spiritwalker]

Originally Posted by NateR

Well, that's a warped and incomplete view of GOD if I've ever heard it.

As opposed to God created AIDS.. God allowed the Jews to be almost exterminated in Nazi Germany..God would call home possibly 1000s of kids without a chance to get to know Him in Hatti... If that's God.. I am scared...and I don't like the idea of being afraid of my Creator..

Forgiveness, I can understand where you get that from. However, GOD only forgives those who repent. So, a gay man must first admit that he is sinning by committing homosexual acts and stop living a homosexual lifestyle for GOD to forgive him.

But if God created the gay man/woman... then that means God sets them up to fail...hardly fair... (being that homosexuality is not a lifestyle)

If homosexuality is "learned".. then why/how does God allow his creations to be "perverted" .. how many gay people were abused as children.

Tolerance? Using the actual meaning of the word "tolerance" then maybe I could see where you are coming from with that. But using the modern meaning of the word? Never. GOD is righteous and perfect, He cannot tolerate sin and He will not tolerate unrepentant sin.

Understood.. but using homosexuality as a point of reference.. if they were "made" that way.. either nature or nurture... it becomes more difficult..

Being kind to each other? Yes, GOD wants us to treat others as we would like to be treated. However, that doesn't mean that we have to tolerate, endorse or in any way accept their sinful lifestyle. In fact, the Bible commands us to be holy (set apart) from this sinful world. So by Mark saying that he doesn't want any gay men around his children, he's not only being a good parent, he's being a good Christian.

So keeping gays away from church (no matter if they are praticing homosexuals or not) is the right thing?

Please don't misunderstand.. I do not say that I am right or wrong..You are right or wrong... it's matters like this that I have pondered most of my life..