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  #11  
Old 01-17-2010, 03:12 PM
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May I ask. Why are you so interested in Lucifer
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:21 PM
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May I ask. Why are you so interested in Lucifer
Who me?

A better question would be.. "Why aren't you?"... You talk as ifyou are a much better religious person than I am.. You have a releationship with God.. at least it appears.. So Why aren't you interested in God's choosen Adversary?

Well..for me... it's pretty simple....

There are billions or people on the earth...and out of those billions.. there are millions of religions.. with "God, Budda, Allaha and so forth...

I would hate to know how many versions there are of the Bible.. or the Koran.. and many other religious text....

But in most other popular religions.. no matter who they are.. what flavor of religion.. EVERYONE on the planet (with some VERY minor expections.. prolly less than 10 million people).... knows two names...

Jesus and "the devil"

I find that interesting. Religion is (among other things) interesting.
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2010, 03:25 PM
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But in most other popular religions..

knows two names...

Jesus and "the devil"

I find that interesting.
Lovely, tell me about the Former
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:30 PM
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I FOUND IT!! its in Ezekiel

notice...the rant begins as a dressing down of the King ot Tyre...but then half way through the rant..."you were in Eden.." No...the King of Tyre was never in Eden...GOD is talking about Lucifer at this point! I've highlighted it in blue

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'In the pride of your heart
you say, "I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas."
But you are a man and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.
3 Are you wiser than Daniel [a] ?
Is no secret hidden from you?

4 By your wisdom and understanding
you have gained wealth for yourself
and amassed gold and silver
in your treasuries.

5 By your great skill in trading
you have increased your wealth,
and because of your wealth
your heart has grown proud.

6 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'Because you think you are wise,
as wise as a god,

7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations;
they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom
and pierce your shining splendor.

8 They will bring you down to the pit,
and you will die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.

9 Will you then say, "I am a god,"
in the presence of those who kill you?
You will be but a man, not a god,
in the hands of those who slay you.

10 You will die the death of the uncircumcised
at the hands of foreigners.
I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "

11 The word of the LORD came to me: 12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [b] turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.' "
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:35 PM
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It plain to see that GOD is comparing the King of Tyre with Lucifer. Both created in splendor and perfect, both tarnished by pride, both come to a sticky end.

The main give away is that Tyre isnt a Cherub, (A cherub is a classification of Angelic Host) and Tyre was never in Eden.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritwalker View Post
See I would like to be able to view books omitted from the bible...

I wonder what all of the commandments actually were... things of that nature..

I wonder what God thinks of our current translations.. of the translations of the translations... translations on top of translations.... just one of those things I work on from time to time.
Most of the books omitted from the Bible were done so for reasons of historical accuracy. You can buy an Apocrypha at most books stores, which contains all the books omitted from the Old Testament.

The Hebrew Bible (our Old Testament) has been meticulously preserved over the centuries. The Jewish Scribes would copy the scrolls letter-for-letter and if even one letter was wrong or misplaced, or if the ink bled too much and two letters touched each other, then the entire scroll would have to be discarded and they would start over. This almost extreme commitment to accuracy is why manuscripts from over 1000 years ago are virtually identical to manuscripts today. No other document has been so well preserved, making the Bible the most perfectly preserved text in all of human history.

GOD is able to work through ignorance, so that means He is able to speak through translations. As long as we approach him in humility then He will speak to us.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
It plain to see that GOD is comparing the King of Tyre with Lucifer. Both created in splendor and perfect, both tarnished by pride, both come to a sticky end.

The main give away is that Tyre isnt a Cherub, (A cherub is a classification of Angelic Host) and Tyre was never in Eden.
The Bible often mentions world leaders as illustrations of Satan. So any mentions of earthly kings and princes would almost always be a reference to BOTH a contemporary world leader and Satan himself.
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:21 PM
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Most of the books omitted from the Bible were done so for reasons of historical accuracy. You can buy an Apocrypha at most books stores, which contains all the books omitted from the Old Testament.
.
Yes...but finding the Early Church documents, the vast majority of which are not any more ancient then the books included in the New Testament are..well there is hundreds of them...I wonder if there is a compendium of them or not.

The Apokrapha you can argue actually is ommited scripture because it was the Jews who changed their minds wasnt it after a reformation of some kind...but the vast majority of the apokraphal books which are written Christian, and not Jewish, were never even considered Scriptures...they are...some of them, absolutely fascinating
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:26 PM
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The Bible often mentions world leaders as illustrations of Satan. So any mentions of earthly kings and princes would almost always be a reference to BOTH a contemporary world leader and Satan himself.
Its still an interesting comparison...because in relation to some of the issues raised about Lucifer in this thread...one has to remember how this illustration begins.

'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.


It comes back to people thinking it must be some sort of mistake that Lucifer can possibly be refered to as anything but Evil and bad...and whilst im not denying his nature...I would deny the way some people assume he works. Why would he not be refered to in a context before the fall as "a morning star" WHO exactly do some people thing Lucifer is/was

These are usually the same people who see Evil as opposite to Good...or the Devil as opposite to GOD...but thats not true. GOD isnt a Created Being...the Devil is a Created being...he might have been the biggest and most powerful created being...but never the less...a created being can not be said to be GODs opposite...because that implies the Devil is as powerfully bad, as GOD is powerfully good. Which is another falseity
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2010, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
I FOUND IT!! its in Ezekiel

notice...the rant begins as a dressing down of the King ot Tyre...but then half way through the rant..."you were in Eden.." No...the King of Tyre was never in Eden...GOD is talking about Lucifer at this point! I've highlighted it in blue

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'In the pride of your heart
you say, "I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas."
But you are a man and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.
3 Are you wiser than Daniel [a] ?
Is no secret hidden from you?

4 By your wisdom and understanding
you have gained wealth for yourself
and amassed gold and silver
in your treasuries.

5 By your great skill in trading
you have increased your wealth,
and because of your wealth
your heart has grown proud.

6 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'Because you think you are wise,
as wise as a god,

7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations;
they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom
and pierce your shining splendor.

8 They will bring you down to the pit,
and you will die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.

9 Will you then say, "I am a god,"
in the presence of those who kill you?
You will be but a man, not a god,
in the hands of those who slay you.

10 You will die the death of the uncircumcised
at the hands of foreigners.
I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "

11 The word of the LORD came to me: 12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [b] turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.' "


Man ,isn't it Awesome that we have God's Word and that He has revealed truth to us. It's exiting to find things like this in the Bible.
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