File this under Guilty until proven innocent!

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by rockdawg21

This is very true. In cases of husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, etc. the male is almost always the one at fault regardless of evidence. Burden of proof tends to get thrown right out the window in accusations such as this.

Such is life in this man world where there is rarely "balance" or a "happy median".

Not too long ago, women were considered their husband's property and he could do whatever he wanted to do with no interference from the law. From that time 'til now, many women have paid dearly. So if you wonder why things are the way they are now, look back to how they were then.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Bonnie

There are women out there unfortunately who will, without conscience, vindictively accuse her boyfriend or husband of domestic violence. I think women who do that should face harsh consequences (jail time) for their false accusations and the harm they intentionally cause.

On the flip side, how many women have filed "protective orders" only to be killed. More often than not it is a useless piece of paper that does little to stop the man intent on harming or killing the woman. There have been countless cases such as this and even movies made of these real life stories. Just as in the case of POs, I doubt that any law will stop a man from getting a gun who is intent on shooting/killing his intended victim.

We had a case in our town where a wife had gone to court to file against her husband. She was coming down the court house steps (with law enforcement personnel all around) when her husband (a sheriff's deputy) shot and killed her with his service revolver. A guy went to a woman's shelter where his wife and kids had gone to hide from him and shot and killed her.

It would be great if they could put laws into place that actually did what they were intended to do without infringing on anyone's rights. I'm for our right to bear arms. I'm equally for a woman in a domestic violence situation not having to fear for her life in having those arms used against her. Seems a tall order for our legislators to find a way to protect both without doing harm to either.

Oh and by the way, have you ever heard of a "man's shelter"...

This is why it's more important to not deny women the right to carry concealed firearms, instead of putting their safety in the hands of law enforcement officers who are under no legal obligation to protect them.

What if the male makes an allegation to get the female unarmed?

Oh on the Women being property thing!
1- It ain't right either way. Just becuase some women in the past were mistreated don't mean its modern woman's time for revenge!

2-I suspect alot of women,especially American women have always been pretty good at getting their way on most things.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE

What if the male makes an allegation to get the female unarmed?

Well, that's part of the same argument. NO ONE should have their right to carry a firearm taken away until they've actually been convicted of a violent crime in a court of law.

Is that dangerous? Yes, it could be. However, no one said that freedom was safe; but freedom is important enough to accept any possible risks that it might bring.

Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE

Oh on the Women being property thing!
1- It ain't right either way. Just becuase some women in the past were mistreated don't mean its modern woman's time for revenge!

Exactly! People are responsible for their own actions. Our generation shouldn't be punished or lose freedoms for the mistakes of previous generations. That's not justice.

It's wrong for laws to favor men over women; but it's just as wrong to write laws that favor women over men.

Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE

2-I suspect alot of women,especially American women have always been pretty good at getting their way on most things.

Yeah, it's interesting how many women complain that men treat them like they are weak and helpless and at the same time support laws that reinforce the notion that women are weak and helpless.

Not allowing women to defend themselves, hiding them away somewhere "safe", and arresting men, who have committed no crimes, purely on suspicion and hearsay, only tells women that they aren't capable of taking care of themselves.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by NateR

Is that dangerous? Yes, it could be. However, no one said that freedom was safe. However, freedom is important enough to accept any possible risks that it might bring.

.

You might not think that if someone you love gets killed during that period of time. where a little restriction could have saved their lives. If a Trial is set, then I dont see why restrictions cant apply until after the Trial is over...after all, you guys have no problem locking up supposeded Terrorists without ever promising a Trial...and every country I know has the right to refuse bail on a person awaiting trial...thus possibly keeping an innocent man in prison before Trial.

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE

What if the male makes an allegation to get the female unarmed?

Oh on the Women being property thing!
1- It ain't right either way. Just becuase some women in the past were mistreated don't mean its modern woman's time for revenge!

2-I suspect alot of women,especially American women have always been pretty good at getting their way on most things.

Who is talking about revenge other than you guys? I acknowledged there are women out there who are low enough to make false allegations against a guy out of spite and what I thought should happen to them.

1) I was commenting on the fact (to RockD's post) that our system seems to go from one extreme to another and using the example of how women used to be considered the property of men with the law unwilling to interfere at all in "domestic" situations and how it has evolved over the years for "yes!" the protection of women who are in danger of being hurt or killed.

2) Sounds like your opinion and you have every right to it.

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by NateR
Well, that's part of the same argument. NO ONE should have their right to carry a firearm taken away until they've actually been convicted of a violent crime in a court of law.

I'm not opposed to "concealed weapons" for certain people/professions in society. I don't necessarily think that is the answer for women who find themselves in these nightmares. Any number of things could go wrong because of that "human" factor. What if she takes matters into her own hands and just kills him. It takes care of the threat she was facing but now she's the criminal. Not to mention the added concerns for law enforcement personnel.

Originally Posted by NateR
Is that dangerous? Yes, it could be. However, no one said that freedom was safe; but freedom is important enough to accept any possible risks that it might bring.

Sounds really great and patriotic, but it's cold comfort for people living these nightmares, Nate. To your comment above about waiting 'til they've been "convicted", that would really only be good in the cases where there are false alllegations made. It's not going to help the woman who files a complaint and the guy is arrested and makes bail and then gets his gun and shoots and kills her before the trial.

Originally Posted by NateR
Exactly! People are responsible for their own actions. Our generation shouldn't be punished or lose freedoms for the mistakes of previous generations. That's not justice.

It's wrong for laws to favor men over women; but it's just as wrong to write laws that favor women over men.

Goes back to what I said to RockD about how things are rarely "balanced" in our world. Our lawmakers seem to go from one extreme to the other when trying to fix one injustice only to create others.

Originally Posted by NateR
Yeah, it's interesting how many women complain that men treat them like they are weak and helpless and at the same time support laws that reinforce the notion that women are weak and helpless.

This isn't about women's lib and a guy opening the door for a woman, Nathan. I know you know that! It's about women being safe. I'm not saying they've found a happy "balance" in doing that and preserving our "freedoms", but that's what this is about. As always, they could be doing a better job.

Originally Posted by NateR
Not allowing women to defend themselves, hiding them away somewhere "safe", and arresting men, who have committed no crimes, purely on suspicion and hearsay, only tells women that they aren't capable of taking care of themselves.

Again, you're argument is for men who are falsely accused. It is a terrible thing to be falsely accused. It is wrong.

You just talked about our "freedom being worth any possible risk that it might bring". If I understood you correctly, you're saying it's okay to risk a woman's life in order to preserve our freedom to bear arms. It's just the price she has to pay, right. Well, with that freedom comes responsibility. Don't blame women for men who ABuse that right/freedom in the pursuit of harming them. Because that's why these laws came about. Because of these men, the freedom of other men is being infringed upon.

[Tyburn]

WAR BONNIE

[rockdawg21]

Originally Posted by Bonnie

Such is life in this man world where there is rarely "balance" or a "happy median".

Not too long ago, women were considered their husband's property and he could do whatever he wanted to do with no interference from the law. From that time 'til now, many women have paid dearly. So if you wonder why things are the way they are now, look back to how they were then.

Those women were fighting for "equal rights", but is it really equal?

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by rockdawg21

Those women were fighting for "equal rights", but is it really equal?

Kentucky's original post is about a new domestic violence bill being proposed in Kentucky that might affect a man and his guns.

My response to your post is about how in the past women had no protection from the law if their husbands wanted to beat them or whatever... The law considered it to be a "domestic" issue not a "legal" one for them to handle. I was just saying we need to look to the past to see how these things have come about.

Nothing in life is equal, but don't worry it's still a man's world.