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  #311  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:10 AM
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Spiritwalker Spiritwalker is offline
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In some of those instances, Israel WANTED to walk away from GOD and follow the ways of the world; but GOD wouldn't allow it. He would step in, judge them and then forgive them when they repented. I think He does the same for born-again believers. Even if we tried to walk away from GOD, He would only allow that for so long, then He would step in and essentially knock us flat on our backs, forcing us to look up at Him again.
But if we still refused to look back up at God.. then we would eventually die.. and without returning to God.. we would then be dammed again.. and losing our Salvation..

The idea of Hitler.. being saved .. a follower of the Word... and then becoming the Hitler we all know.. would be a perfect example... IMO...

You could also say that people that kill themselves would lose their salvation..


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So does this mean that we give up our free will when we become saved? To a degree, yes:
Agreed. God tells us what he wants from us... it's up to us to choose to do it or not. Just like a kid in their parents home... only so much will is truly free
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  #312  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:58 AM
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NateR NateR is offline
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But if we still refused to look back up at God.. then we would eventually die.. and without returning to God.. we would then be dammed again.. and losing our Salvation..
We clearly need to define the term "salvation" before continuing any further with this discussion.

When you refer to being "saved" or "salvation" what are you referring to?

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The idea of Hitler.. being saved .. a follower of the Word... and then becoming the Hitler we all know.. would be a perfect example... IMO...
There is no historical evidence suggesting Hitler was ever a Christian. There is some evidence that suggests he was not a Christian (primarily his involvement in the occult). However, since we can't be sure, we just have to examine his fruits. Did he produce good fruits or bad fruits in his life? Clearly he produced only bad fruits, so we can be assured that he was never saved.

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You could also say that people that kill themselves would lose their salvation..
No, I don't believe that at all; but that's a completely different can of worms.

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Agreed. God tells us what he wants from us... it's up to us to choose to do it or not. Just like a kid in their parents home... only so much will is truly free
However, the difference is that when you are saved, you willingly put GOD in charge of every aspect of your life and you agree to put GOD first in your life: ahead of your spouse, ahead of your parents, ahead of your children, ahead of your country, ahead of your job, ahead of everything; but most importantly, ahead of yourself. If you never did that, then you were never saved to begin with.
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  #313  
Old 01-19-2010, 05:03 PM
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Well, I'm 99% sure that you can't (100% was Shawn's number, not mine).

What convinces me is the overarching themes in the Old Testament of GOD's relationship with Israel: Israel falls into sin and idolatry, GOD punishes them, then GOD brings them back to repentance.

In some of those instances, Israel WANTED to walk away from GOD and follow the ways of the world; but GOD wouldn't allow it. He would step in, judge them and then forgive them when they repented. I think He does the same for born-again believers. Even if we tried to walk away from GOD, He would only allow that for so long, then He would step in and essentially knock us flat on our backs, forcing us to look up at Him again.

So does this mean that we give up our free will when we become saved? To a degree, yes:

Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
Good point, Nate! And GOD is the same today as he was then.
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  #314  
Old 01-19-2010, 05:17 PM
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I think this verse is a perfect example of someone who claimed they were saved, but really never were. The Apostle John says "THEY" speaking of unbelievers went out from them because they really never were of them to begin with. Like Judas.

1 John 2: 19
[B]19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.[/B]

So if one can lose their salvation, they have to explain away this verse.

Also, the night Jesus was handed over for suffering and death, Peter denied Christ 3 times. Did Peter lose his salvation 3 times in one night?
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  #315  
Old 01-19-2010, 07:03 PM
Chris F
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I notice no one has yet been able to prove it one way or another. I think we are all better served not to worry about if it is possible or not and live our lives in a way we not beyond any doubt. Peter said to make you calling and election sure. So we should do just that and not search for a line to toe. God is God we are not and he alone writes the names in the Book of life and can remove them if he so chooses. I do no think we can profit anymore from these attempts to one up and get the last word. I think we all know in our hearts what we need to do to please our Lord and God and that is what we should do.
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  #316  
Old 01-19-2010, 08:48 PM
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Default Not Trying To Get The Last Word......

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I notice no one has yet been able to prove it one way or another. I think we are all better served not to worry about if it is possible or not and live our lives in a way we not beyond any doubt. Peter said to make you calling and election sure. So we should do just that and not search for a line to toe. God is God we are not and he alone writes the names in the Book of life and can remove them if he so chooses. I do no think we can profit anymore from these attempts to one up and get the last word. I think we all know in our hearts what we need to do to please our Lord and God and that is what we should do.
.....but I think that this answer sums things up pretty good.

Later.
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  #317  
Old 01-22-2010, 05:12 AM
Chris F
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Here is a youtube video. It is a pretty good message. Might answer the question for some forum member.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6xL8mdNyw&feature=sub
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