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Old 12-27-2009, 06:00 PM
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Default Police Expect Mumbai-style Attack in London

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6962867.ece

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Scotland Yard has warned businesses in London to expect a Mumbai-style attack on the capital.

In a briefing in the City of London 12 days ago, a senior detective from SO15, the Metropolitan police counter-terrorism command, said: “Mumbai is coming to London.”

The detective said companies should anticipate a shooting and hostage-taking raid “involving a small number of gunmen with handguns and improvised explosive devices”.

The warning — the bluntest issued by police — has underlined an assessment that a terrorist cell may be preparing an attack on London early next year.

During a “commando-style” raid by 10 gunmen on hotels and cafes in Mumbai in November 2008, 174 people were killed and more than 300 injured over three days.

Officials now report an increase in “intelligence chatter” — communications captured by electronic eavesdropping agencies. One senior security adviser said the police warnings had intensified and become much more specific in the past fortnight.

“Before, there has been speculation. Now we are getting what appears to be a definite plot to carry out a firearms attack on London,” he said.

Earlier this year, police, military and intelligence services held an exercise in Kent to see whether they could defeat a commando raid in London by terrorists.

“The exercise brought out to those taking part that the capability doesn’t exist to deal with that situation should it arise,” said a military source.

Security sources said concerns had been raised by “chatter” on a prominent jihadist website two weeks ago.

One contributor suggested fighters could use automatic weapons to strike places such as nightclubs, sporting venues and Jewish centres.

In an online discussion hosted on December 2, another contributor invited suggestions for carrying out “guerrilla warfare” and proposed “a group of mujaheddin raid police stations and fire at them”.

Another said: “Make sure that all those at the location are of age, that there are no children and so on. Insist on the locations and times where no Muslims or children are to be expected.

“If machine guns are available, and explosive and expertise for [explosives] are not available, this is a good way ... The [Mumbai] operation is the ideal scenario for operations you are talking about.”

A third contributor said targets should be “chosen in a studied manner”.

He added: “In general, targeting economic joints and intelligence centres if possible has priority over police stations.”

The Met is understood to be struggling to draw up effective plans to deal with the challenge of mass shootings followed by a prolonged siege with terrorists prepared to kill their hostages and themselves.

In Mumbai, many victims were killed in the first half hour of the attack. The Met is concerned that it will be much longer before the SAS, which has traditionally dealt with terrorist sieges in London, would arrive from its base at Regent’s Park barracks.

Patrick Mercer, chairman of the Commons counter-terrorism sub-committee, said the threat was “very real”.
The citizens of London shouldn't worry . . . their police officers without guns will blow their "bobby" whistles and give the terrorists a stern warning.
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Old 12-27-2009, 09:03 PM
Chuck
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Originally Posted by Play The Man View Post
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6962867.ece



The citizens of London shouldn't worry . . . their police officers without guns will blow their "bobby" whistles and give the terrorists a stern warning.
It sucks to be a Brit that's for sure...

Good luck with the whole self defense thing..
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Old 12-27-2009, 09:17 PM
Blade
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It will happen, and not just in London. And yup this is one such occasion when being a Brit does suck.
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:03 PM
Chuck
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It will happen, and not just in London. And yup this is one such occasion when being a Brit does suck.
You knew I meant that in the generic "you have tight gun control laws" sort of way...


It was nothing personal
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:07 PM
Blade
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You knew I meant that in the generic "you have tight gun control laws" sort of way...


It was nothing personal
No it's ok it really does suck being a Brit a lot of the time, lol.
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:12 PM
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One contributor suggested fighters could use automatic weapons to strike places such as nightclubs, sporting venues and Jewish centres.

You wont find any of those in The City of London. Its not residential, its not even particularly retail, its almost totally business and mostly finance. If they attack anywhere, it will be one of three places, They'll either go for Saint Marys Axe, aka the Ghurkin...its both a landmark, and a business centre...but its not that big. More likely they will go for Canary Wharf, the financial centre of the city..

...or of course they go for Saint Paul's In terms of Bombs, Saint Paul's isnt to bad, we can evacuate within moments (the greater risk is obviously up the dome itself) and there are blast doors in the crypt that I believe can seal off section of the subtaranian network which goes under paternoster square as far as the stock exchange.

Course if they want a massicre, they'd attack on a Sunday during Communion wouldnt they I suppose...but then the city itself is dead outside of the Cathedral itself...it would have to be a vendetta against Christians specifically...and these people are moving away from attacking religious centres for religious meanings...usually they go for something financial, or the Government

btw, FYI, most of the armed units, secret services (armed) and BTP (armed) are all in the City of Westminster...its about the only City where major mass instant response by armed police can occur. If you plan on attacking with firearms, Greater London is perhaps the worst possible place in Britian.
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:13 PM
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No it's ok it really does suck being a Brit a lot of the time, lol.
Just because it sucks to be you Blade...doesnt mean it sucks to be me
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:28 PM
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In Mumbai, many victims were killed in the first half hour of the attack. The Met is concerned that it will be much longer before the SAS, which has traditionally dealt with terrorist sieges in London, would arrive from its base at Regent’s Park barracks

How can it take the SAS more then half an hour to get from Regents Park to London...when I can make the trip from Bloomsbury in less then half an hour ON FOOT

Regents park isnt even out as far as camden town...its on the bloody East Side of Westminster as it is...they dont even need to cross the city...its only slightly north of Tyburn....and they think it takes more then half an hour to get to London....considering the control over the traffic and the manouverability that they could have as a special force???

perhaps I should try out for the SAS but I'm sorry thats a riddiculous notion...if they flew...it would take a matter of minuits, if they walked, granted it might take an hour...if they went in cars and vans and stopped the traffic, they could be on seen in less then twenty mins tops!

...but then...this is coordinated by the Met...the same Met whose general incompetance of Charles De Menzies, leaves a lot to be desired...perhaps it would take that long...perhaps they all need to do a ****ing risk assessment before taking up the bloody challenge
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
One contributor suggested fighters could use automatic weapons to strike places such as nightclubs, sporting venues and Jewish centres.

You wont find any of those in The City of London. Its not residential, its not even particularly retail, its almost totally business and mostly finance. If they attack anywhere, it will be one of three places, They'll either go for Saint Marys Axe, aka the Ghurkin...its both a landmark, and a business centre...but its not that big. More likely they will go for Canary Wharf, the financial centre of the city..

...or of course they go for Saint Paul's In terms of Bombs, Saint Paul's isnt to bad, we can evacuate within moments (the greater risk is obviously up the dome itself) and there are blast doors in the crypt that I believe can seal off section of the subtaranian network which goes under paternoster square as far as the stock exchange.

Course if they want a massicre, they'd attack on a Sunday during Communion wouldnt they I suppose...but then the city itself is dead outside of the Cathedral itself...it would have to be a vendetta against Christians specifically...and these people are moving away from attacking religious centres for religious meanings...usually they go for something financial, or the Government

btw, FYI, most of the armed units, secret services (armed) and BTP (armed) are all in the City of Westminster...its about the only City where major mass instant response by armed police can occur. If you plan on attacking with firearms, Greater London is perhaps the worst possible place in Britian.
if they detonate a bomb Dave you wont have a few moments to evacuate...well unless they tell you before hand that is...pretty sure they wont though.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:44 PM
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if they detonate a bomb Dave you wont have a few moments to evacuate...well unless they tell you before hand that is...pretty sure they wont though.
The whole Building wont be distroyed by a single blast, its quite an expansive building....and often we have had bomb threats...if a package or bag appears and we dont know where its come from...that can be enough.

Its not an enclosed space particularly, which means it wouldnt take well to a suicide Bomber...it would be far better to plant bombs strategically in order to try and bring the building down...THATS the sort of attack that we would discover and evacuate against

I lived in London when they bombed the Tubes Brad

This shows you a bit clearer in terms of the sheer size of the building

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YstlGy1Ld0

Remember, Saint Paul's Cathedral is inhabited by a VERY large Organ, I dont think people understand what that means. The Organ is like a parasite that lives between the walls of the cathedral, its pipes and the vents that carry the air go around the whole entire building...right up into the Dome Cavities, and right down the nave behind the wall, the pipes are heavy, and when the organ is played, the pipes are so powerful various parts of the building litterally riverberate. You set a Bomb off, under the Dome of Saint Paul's Cathedral, and I very much doubt you would succeed in doing anything but breaking a few windows...its like a cavern, and dispite its age and apparent insecurity, people forget the fact that possibly the thing that could cause it the most structural damage doesnt effect it at all. You would have to target support walls, with a lot of force. Not easy to do from the inside...You'd need simultaneous explosions in different parts of the building...try doing that alone, without someone accidently discovering a package and causing an evacuation...or doing it in a group without being seen. Sure you could drop a bomb on the Building...from the air...but here is another fact, two bombs of World War Two size and power, DID strike the building, one in the North Transept, about as close to the Dome as you can get without hitting it...and the power was not enough to destabalize the dome and bring it down. You could Nuke it...but thats not a "Mumbai-style" attack. You could plough a plane into it...I suppose...but even then because its low and squat its going to end up looking more like the damaged pentagon, then the damaged World Trade Centre.

I dont worry so much about people being killed in an attack on SPC...what I worry about is, after the people get out, what happens to my beloved Cathedral when the attack manifests itself. I love that Building and that place so much. I pray GOD never allows a hand to be raised to her. The Connection I have with that place is like the connection that the Prophet Jeremiah had with The Temple of Jerusalem...except...he lived to see what happened when the Building was attacked. I pray that I'm dead before anything happens like that to Saint Paul's :(
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