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  #21  
Old 12-21-2009, 10:44 PM
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the world is better off without these cultures.
Funny, isnt that exactly the sort of fascism that Hitler used to try and convince Germany.

I dont uphold the wiping out of any culture based purely on because of who they are. What the Spanish did was massicre those Meso-American Cultures, and it was nasty...what the Americans did to the Natives, was...yes a very similar thing, and it was nasty to.
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  #22  
Old 12-21-2009, 10:45 PM
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When it's actually the other way around.
But they are still saying it.
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  #23  
Old 12-21-2009, 10:47 PM
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However, I have to say that the Native Americans would never have been a threat to white settelers if we didn't come over here and try and take their land lol.

We took advantage of these people and nearly killed off their entire race.

I'm not saying I wish we never came here and took it over I'med just saying that it was ****ed up what we did.

As horrible as some of these cultures may have been it was THEIR culture. Yes we conquered the land thus laid claim but it doesn't make it any better lol.
Agreed. BUT on the flip side. Plenty of other countries have done similar. Nathan mentioning the Meso American Cultures is a prime example. But the Europeans and British have been just as bad

It happens.

but the insitgators should never be praised as Saints.
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  #24  
Old 12-21-2009, 11:13 PM
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Funny, isnt that exactly the sort of fascism that Hitler used to try and convince Germany.

I dont uphold the wiping out of any culture based purely on because of who they are. What the Spanish did was massicre those Meso-American Cultures, and it was nasty...what the Americans did to the Natives, was...yes a very similar thing, and it was nasty to.
Actually, Hitler was about wiping out races, not cultures. Please tell me that you understand the difference between a race and a culture.
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  #25  
Old 12-21-2009, 11:50 PM
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So as long as dictator only murders his own people in his own country, then it's acceptable? So I guess that means that domestic violence and child abuse are okay as long as it only happens in the home of the abuser.

Seriously, though, I'm talking about tribes that regularly attacked neighboring tribes and raped, mutilated, tortured, and murdered with impunity. This was before the Europeans even arrived. I'm also talking about stuff like human sacrifices and cannibalism.

I'm talking about a level of violence that was far above anything the Europeans did.
i don't know what level of violence has to do with it? weather you are chopping people up and eating them or marching them into gas chambers or starving people to death, murder is murder imo ....

but the klans of scots were violent with each other, they should be wiped off, the english were violent with the scots, there are plenty of tribes in africa that are violent with each other, the south african whites to the south african blacks and now the south african blacks to the south african whites, the chinese to the tibetans .... they should all be wiped out by your way of thinking ...

also, what is murder with impunity? is there murder without impunity?
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  #26  
Old 12-22-2009, 12:00 AM
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i don't know what level of violence has to do with it?
Everything. Do you believe that a man who slaps his wife and a man who stabs his wife and kills her are deserving of the same punishment?

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weather you are chopping people up and eating them or marching them into gas chambers or starving people to death, murder is murder imo ....
I can only assume that you're making a reference to the Nazis when you mention the gas chambers. What did we do to the Nazis? Oh yeah, we wiped them off the face of the planet. Any that escaped and are now in hiding are hunted down and brought to trial. Thanks for illustrating my point so perfectly.

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but the klans of scots were violent with each other, they should be wiped off, the english were violent with the scots, there are plenty of tribes in africa that are violent with each other, the south african whites to the south african blacks and now the south african blacks to the south african whites, the chinese to the tibetans .... they should all be wiped out by your way of thinking ...
No, that's not my way of thinking. That's just your cynical and closed-minded appraisal of what you believe to be my way of thinking.

So do you just jump to conclusions with everybody or are there instances where you actually try to understand someone who has a different point of view?

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also, what is murder with impunity? is there murder without impunity?
"Murder with impunity" is murder without consequences. Just go to an abortion clinic to see a perfect example of this.

So, logically, "murder without impunity" would be murder with consequences, which clearly exists. Our prison system is proof of that.
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  #27  
Old 12-22-2009, 12:59 AM
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Anti-Semitism is on a rise across the world. The nation of Israel is surrounded by enemies who only want their eradication. Plus, we still have survivors from the most recent systematic extermination of the Jewish people alive today. I'd say that they have good reason to be sensitive.

Plus, the Native-American situation is a very bad comparison. Especially considering how the history of those conflicts is being continually rewritten to demonize the white settlers and victimize the Indians. You've clearly bought into the revisionist historical propaganda. We actually did everyone a favor by destroying some of those Native-American tribes.
Who did we do a favor to?
White people who were stealing land? lol
Certainly not Native American's.

We invaded, and killed.
You can church it up to sound however you need to,
but facts are facts, whites slaughtered native americans, period.

It certainly is not a bad comparison,
every time a jew gets slandered its all over the news,
but natives can be made a mockery of and its fine.
Its hypocrisy.
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  #28  
Old 12-22-2009, 02:03 AM
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Who did we do a favor to?
White people who were stealing land? lol
Certainly not Native American's.

We invaded, and killed.
You can church it up to sound however you need to,
but facts are facts, whites slaughtered native americans, period.

It certainly is not a bad comparison,
every time a jew gets slandered its all over the news,
but natives can be made a mockery of and its fine.
Its hypocrisy.
Again, if you only know the story that has been written within the last century, then of course you are going to think that. However, that's not the full story. I'm not claiming that the white settlers were 100% innocent, however, the Native-American tribes weren't completely innocent either. The violence went both ways.

And you can't claim that the Native-American violence was ALWAYS justified. Since they had no concept of land ownership, you can't really steal something from someone if they don't actually own it. If I grew up around a tree on an unclaimed plot of land and had lots of fond memories of climbing that tree, do I have the right to be angry and try to kill someone who buys that lot and cuts the tree down? No, because the tree never actually belonged to me.

Now in the instances where we actually drove them off their settlements and destroyed their homes, then I would agree that we were 100% wrong. However, Puritan settlers moving into unclaimed ground in order to flee from religious oppression is not the same thing as armed men on horseback riding through Indian campgrounds and killing everything in sight.

You also have to remember that most Puritans and Quakers were pacifists and would never steal from anyone for fear of incurring GOD's wrath. They made trades or attempted to purchase land from the Indians, but again, land ownership was a foreign concept to Native-Americans. So, unfortunately, because of the cultural divide, the natives saw the "trades" or "payments" as gifts and didn't necessarily understand that the Europeans were purchasing something that they believed belonged to everyone.

My dad's adopted father was an "Indian hunter" in Mexico during the early 20th century and his motto was "The only good Indian is a dead Indian" (a point of view that I most definitely do NOT share). My dad's adopted mother actually fled for her life from Geronimo, while she was a child in Mexico. So my dad's family had experienced the brutality of Native Americans first hand. On the other side of the coin, I'm actually part Cherokee from my mother's side of the family.

So this kind of gives me a different perspective and I can tell you that the version of history that is commonly taught in public schools and glorified in movies is only half the story.
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  #29  
Old 12-22-2009, 03:09 AM
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Again, if you only know the story that has been written within the last century, then of course you are going to think that. However, that's not the full story. I'm not claiming that the white settlers were 100% innocent, however, the Native-American tribes weren't completely innocent either. The violence went both ways.

And you can't claim that the Native-American violence was ALWAYS justified. Since they had no concept of land ownership, you can't really steal something from someone if they don't actually own it. If I grew up around a tree on an unclaimed plot of land and had lots of fond memories of climbing that tree, do I have the right to be angry and try to kill someone who buys that lot and cuts the tree down? No, because the tree never actually belonged to me.

Now in the instances where we actually drove them off their settlements and destroyed their homes, then I would agree that we were 100% wrong. However, Puritan settlers moving into unclaimed ground in order to flee from religious oppression is not the same thing as armed men on horseback riding through Indian campgrounds and killing everything in sight.

You also have to remember that most Puritans and Quakers were pacifists and would never steal from anyone for fear of incurring GOD's wrath. They made trades or attempted to purchase land from the Indians, but again, land ownership was a foreign concept to Native-Americans. So, unfortunately, because of the cultural divide, the natives saw the "trades" or "payments" as gifts and didn't necessarily understand that the Europeans were purchasing something that they believed belonged to everyone.

My dad's adopted father was an "Indian hunter" in Mexico during the early 20th century and his motto was "The only good Indian is a dead Indian" (a point of view that I most definitely do NOT share). My dad's adopted mother actually fled for her life from Geronimo, while she was a child in Mexico. So my dad's family had experienced the brutality of Native Americans first hand. On the other side of the coin, I'm actually part Cherokee from my mother's side of the family.

So this kind of gives me a different perspective and I can tell you that the version of history that is commonly taught in public schools and glorified in movies is only half the story.
You're definitely right that we are only taught half the story.
and to be honest I couldn't care less about how our history played out with the native american's, I was just trying to use them for an example.
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  #30  
Old 12-22-2009, 02:26 PM
Crisco
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Funny, isnt that exactly the sort of fascism that Hitler used to try and convince Germany.

I dont uphold the wiping out of any culture based purely on because of who they are. What the Spanish did was massicre those Meso-American Cultures, and it was nasty...what the Americans did to the Natives, was...yes a very similar thing, and it was nasty to.
Not at the time ;)

Your countryman sir.
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