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Old 12-20-2009, 09:17 AM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Default Vatican angers Jews through beatification

It looks like The Vatican are considering begging the very long process of making Pope John-Paul 2nd a cannonized Saint. The first step is to get a Pope to sign off on him, thus officially recognising the man and his achievements

HOWEVER

Lets not forget that John-Paul was extremely Liberal, and slightly counter to the theology of the present Pope. When Benedict Signed him off...He ALSO chose to sign off on an unlikely person

Specifing "Heroic Virtues" Benedict 16th decided to sign off on Pope Pius 12th.

aka...the Evil Pope of the World War Two who decided to support Adolf Hitler

Now the way is open, if its so desired, to begin the centuries long process of making two extreme opposites Saints...

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict on Saturday put his wartime predecessor Pope Pius XII, accused by Jews of turning a blind eye to the Holocaust, back on the road to Roman Catholic sainthood.

Jewish groups had asked the pope to freeze the process that could lead to eventual sainthood until more World War Two archives could be studied.

The pope approved a decree on Saturday recognising Pius' "heroic virtues", meaning he will have the title "venerable". It puts Pius two steps away from sainthood. First he must be beatified and then canonised.

Elan Steinberg, vice president of the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants, called the decision "profoundly insensitive and thoughtless", coming a day after the site of the Auschwitz death camp was desecrated.

He was referring to Friday's theft of the notorious metal sign above the entrance of the former Nazi death camp that reads "arbeit macht frei" (Work Makes You Free).

"We are left bereft in our feelings," Steinberg told Reuters from New York, adding that it went against private assurances the Vatican had given the Jewish community.

"I am puzzled and concerned by the decision, especially as it seems rather undiplomatic in light of the pending visit of the Pope to the Rome synagogue in three weeks' time," Rabbi David Rosen, International Director of Inter-religious Relations of the American Jewish Committee, told Reuters.

"While it is not the business of the Jewish community to tell the Holy See who its saints are, if the Church claims as it does that it seeks to live with the Jewish community in a relationship of mutual respect, we expect it to take our sensitivities into serious consideration," Rosen said.

Pope Benedict has come under great pressure from both Catholics and Jews over the possible sainthood of Pius.

The Vatican's department that makes saints submitted the heroic virtues decree to the pope in 2007 but he decided not to approve it immediately, opting instead for what the Vatican called a period of reflection.

Some Jews have accused Pius, who reigned from 1939 to 1958, of not doing enough to help Jews, a charge the Vatican denies.

The Vatican maintains that Pius worked quietly behind the scenes because direct interventions might have worsened the situation for both Jews and Catholics in Europe. Many Jews have rejected this position.

Jews have for years been calling on the Vatican to open the archives as soon as possible so they can be studied by scholars and asked Pope Benedict to freeze the process that could make Pius a saint until all the archives could be examined.

"Why the rush to open up the wound again before the opening of the archives?" Abe Foxman, U.S. national director of the Anti-Defamation League, told Reuters from Jerusalem.

Catholic supporters of Pius have been pushing Benedict to speed up the process, while most Jews believe that pushing Pius ahead on the road to sainthood would harm Catholic-Jewish relations.

The possible sainthood of Pius is one of several issues that have strained Catholic-Jewish relations. Benedict's decision to readmit to the Church a bishop who denied the extent of the Holocaust in January also strained ties.

Richard Williamson had said in an interview he believed there were no gas chambers and that no more than 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, rather than the 6 million accepted by most historians.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:55 AM
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Jews are REALLY sensitive.
Its a little ridiculous.

Adolf doesn't touch the numbers Mao Tse Tung and Stalin had.
Off the top of my head I would guess that we (whitey) have killed more Native American's than Nazi's killed Jews.

Yet we allow teams like the "Redskins" to exist,
completely insensitive.
Never underestimate hypocrisy.

Would we allow a team with a black guy mascot called the "black skins"
My point is, Jews need to suck it up a little.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger View Post
Jews are REALLY sensitive.
Its a little ridiculous.

Adolf doesn't touch the numbers Mao Tse Tung and Stalin had.
Off the top of my head I would guess that we (whitey) have killed more Native American's than Nazi's killed Jews.

Yet we allow teams like the "Redskins" to exist,
completely insensitive.
Never underestimate hypocrisy.

Would we allow a team with a black guy mascot called the "black skins"
My point is, Jews need to suck it up a little.

So you think its alright for The Roman Catholic Church to Recognise under a German Pope, the Pope that Collaberated with the Nazis during the war and denies the Holocaust

I'll tell you what Courageous Virtues would have been. To seal off the Vatican State and tell Adolf Hitler where to go. It would of course have meant martyrdom and the obliteration of Central Rome, if not by Hitler, then by the Italians...That is how one should be cannonized for Courage.

Not supporting Evil, in order to keep your position in a Church that is supposed to be representing Christ. There were a few really evil Popes...he is definately one of them...or do you think the Romans should make Saints out of the Whole lot of them? Perhaps we should suggest to Benedict that he consider the whole German Cabinate...and lets throw in the Japanese for Good measure...after all, they had so many couragous Virtues it took TWO Nuclear bombs to stop them.


Meanwhile...Benedict says he's trying to establish firm links with the Jewish Community...he's going to visit their central Roman Synagog in a few weeks. If I were them, I'd send a public message to the Vatican to tell Benedict the offer is no longer on the table.

So lets look to Pope Pius the twelfth as our Role Model shall we...

This has little to do with the Jews, and more to do with trying to cannonize someone who for all intense and purposes was a Nazi....oh wait...Ratzinger was a Nazi in his youth...of course he was...so of course he wouldnt see no problem with it.

Honnestly...that Man needs to go.
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:57 PM
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NateR NateR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger View Post
Jews are REALLY sensitive.
Its a little ridiculous.

Adolf doesn't touch the numbers Mao Tse Tung and Stalin had.
Off the top of my head I would guess that we (whitey) have killed more Native American's than Nazi's killed Jews.

Yet we allow teams like the "Redskins" to exist,
completely insensitive.
Never underestimate hypocrisy.

Would we allow a team with a black guy mascot called the "black skins"
My point is, Jews need to suck it up a little.
Anti-Semitism is on a rise across the world. The nation of Israel is surrounded by enemies who only want their eradication. Plus, we still have survivors from the most recent systematic extermination of the Jewish people alive today. I'd say that they have good reason to be sensitive.

Plus, the Native-American situation is a very bad comparison. Especially considering how the history of those conflicts is being continually rewritten to demonize the white settlers and victimize the Indians. You've clearly bought into the revisionist historical propaganda. We actually did everyone a favor by destroying some of those Native-American tribes.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
We actually did everyone a favor by destroying some of those Native-American tribes.
No you didnt.

but the point is...noone from that Era is being put forward as a Saint.

The Evil Pope is. He should NEVER be even considered.

My Gran met him. When he was a Cardinal a couple of years before the war for some reason He came to visit her boarding school, she was brought up in a Roman Catholic Boarding School. Anyway, she was running in the corridors (which was not permitted) turned a corner too fast and ploughed right into Him Mother Superior made her kiss his ring...of course

She remembers that day well, because a few years later he was Ellected as Pope by Conclave...and almost directly sided with Germany

He even LOOKS Evil



The rise of the Evil Pope is absolutely Tragic considering his Predecessor by the same name, Pius, came to reject openly Germany AND Italy, for Racism, and Nazi Fascism

Pope Benedict Fifteenth dies 1922 (Declared Vatican Neutral in WW1)
Pope Pius Eleventh dies 1939...BUT in 1933 when Adolf Hitler becomes Chancellor of Germany, Adolf asks the Vatican for a Treaty, and the person who bartered the Treaty directly with Germany would become the Evil Pope! in 1936 Pope Pius writes to Adolf Hitler with concerns. Adolf Hitler ignores him. So Pius writes an Encyclical specifically AGAINST the Nazi Party. It was smuggled into Germany so the Christians could preach it. He asked the Rest of Europe for Help...but they ignored him. He called it "Conspiracy of Silence" in 1938 The Pope pleads with the Italians not to introduce the same kinds of laws that Germany had already done against his wishes. They ignore him. He has a set of heart attacks, and he never recovers. He penned his last encyclical as he lay dying which was a full frontal attack on Nationalism and Anti-Sematism...but died before it was published. Its obvious he regretted ever making any treaty with Germany...but like so many other World Leaders, he was conned into believing, like the entire German people, like Neville Chamberlin, that Adolf Hitler would be good for Germany, and good for Europe...and by the time they realized what Adolf actually was, it was too late for the lot of them.



His Replacement, was Pope Pius Twelefth, who stopped the publishing, tweaked it a tad so as not to be too offensive to Adolf Hitler et al...and published it under his own bloody name.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:25 PM
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nevermind. lol
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:36 PM
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There is no way this person should be canonized and I am sad to see the Pope evenn thinking about it.

However the current Pope was in the Hitler Youth and probably had no real choice in the matter. I am sure he does not endorse any Nazi actions.

But before people pile in, none of us can sit here and truly say how we would act being a citizen of Nazi Germany.

Also, Nate, your words are usually wise and wel thought out. The comment about doing the world a favour by destroying some of those Native American tribes is a load of old tripe.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
No you didnt.
Just read the history on the Cheyenne, Souix, Apache, Blackfoot, Comanche, and Pequot tribes. These were extremely violent tribes that were just as dangerous to their fellow Native Americans as they were to white settlers. Like the Mayans and Aztecs, the world is better off without these cultures.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Just read the history on the Cheyenne, Souix, Apache, Blackfoot, Comanche, and Pequot tribes. These were extremely violent tribes that were just as dangerous to their fellow Native Americans as they were to white settlers. Like the Mayans and Aztecs, the world is better off without these cultures.
Thats exactly what a Islamic extremist is saying about the western world
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonlion View Post
Thats exactly what a Islamic extremist is saying about the western world
When it's actually the other way around.
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