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Old 11-30-2009, 12:30 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Default Advent and Mary



There is something about Mary. Exactly what it is about Mary is a question that Advent asks. Along with John the Baptist, Mary is a key figure in this season and their purpose is to point to Jesus.

My invitation to all of us this advent is to let the Scriptures speak in a fresh way about Mary. There are two themes in particular, the song of Mary and the Virginity of Mary. On the face of it these are so familiar as not to require comment, but in fact they point to the heart of the Gospel.

First the song of Mary.

The Evangelical Anglican Missionary, Henry Martyn, went out to Calcutta as Chaplain to The East India Company in 1805. When he arrived he was appaled to discover that the British Authorities had Banned the recitation of the Magnificat at Evensong. It was simply to subversive and might stir up people to oppose British Rule "He will cast down the Mighty from their seat and raise the Humble and weak..."

Frankly, you can see their point.

This is precisely the Advent Mary we need to encounter afresh, one whose song is prophetic of a world where the Birth of GOD will turn everything upside down. The Church may sing this song everyday, it is certainly not banned in Britian, but the challenge of Advent is to take it seriously.

Secondly the Virginity of Mary

In popular devotion the virginal conception and the doctrine of the virgin birth often get seriously muddled up. In that muddle Christians of all traditions frequently miss the point that Luke is making in his account of the Virginal conception. Too many later accretions prevent us from seeing this clearly but Luke is making a bit point, and one which is all of a piece with his presentation of the good news of Jesus throughout his Gospel.

For in Jewish Tradition, unlike in later categories of Greek and Latin thought, Virginity is a BAD thing, not a good thing at all. Throughout the Old Testament virginity is a negative characteristic, it is useless, despised and pointless. References to Israel as a Virgin which have sometimes gained a positive spin, are in fact wholly negative in their original context, and refer to Israels failure and disobedience.

Luke, whose Gospel speaks so powerfully of Jesus as friend of our Frailty is telling uns the Mary is a Virgin because, like the smelly sheapherds and the inappropriate stable, that is exactly who GOD would choose to the the Mother of GOD. The person with precisely the wrong qualifications. A young Teenage Virgin can be Queen of Heaven because in the upside down values of The Kingdom, even the risen Christ still bears the wounds of the cross. That is the shape of Salvation.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:39 PM
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There is something about Mary. Exactly what it is about Mary is a question that Advent asks. Along with John the Baptist, Mary is a key figure in this season and their purpose is to point to Jesus.

My invitation to all of us this advent is to let the Scriptures speak in a fresh way about Mary. There are two themes in particular, the song of Mary and the Virginity of Mary. On the face of it these are so familiar as not to require comment, but in fact they point to the heart of the Gospel.

First the song of Mary.

The Evangelical Anglican Missionary, Henry Martyn, went out to Calcutta as Chaplain to The East India Company in 1805. When he arrived he was appaled to discover that the British Authorities had Banned the recitation of the Magnificat at Evensong. It was simply to subversive and might stir up people to oppose British Rule "He will cast down the Mighty from their seat and raise the Humble and weak..."

Frankly, you can see their point.

This is precisely the Advent Mary we need to encounter afresh, one whose song is prophetic of a world where the Birth of GOD will turn everything upside down. The Church may sing this song everyday, it is certainly not banned in Britian, but the challenge of Advent is to take it seriously.

Secondly the Virginity of Mary

In popular devotion the virginal conception and the doctrine of the virgin birth often get seriously muddled up. In that muddle Christians of all traditions frequently miss the point that Luke is making in his account of the Virginal conception. Too many later accretions prevent us from seeing this clearly but Luke is making a bit point, and one which is all of a piece with his presentation of the good news of Jesus throughout his Gospel.

For in Jewish Tradition, unlike in later categories of Greek and Latin thought, Virginity is a BAD thing, not a good thing at all. Throughout the Old Testament virginity is a negative characteristic, it is useless, despised and pointless. References to Israel as a Virgin which have sometimes gained a positive spin, are in fact wholly negative in their original context, and refer to Israels failure and disobedience.

Luke, whose Gospel speaks so powerfully of Jesus as friend of our Frailty is telling uns the Mary is a Virgin because, like the smelly sheapherds and the inappropriate stable, that is exactly who GOD would choose to the the Mother of GOD. The person with precisely the wrong qualifications. A young Teenage Virgin can be Queen of Heaven because in the upside down values of The Kingdom, even the risen Christ still bears the wounds of the cross. That is the shape of Salvation.


I had no idea it was seen like this. I guess the ideal was to be married and not a virgin etc

Another wonderful message of the Kingdom of heaven, teenage virgins and shepherds in the birth of Jesus Christ, lowly fishermen as disciples.]

Our god is show mighty, powerful and gracious.

I love how the Gospel can fill us with such hope
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:37 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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I had no idea it was seen like this. I guess the ideal was to be married and not a virgin etc
Indeed. FAR from stressing Virginity as pureity....in the Jewish Sense, Virginity appears to be impotence...you might as well be barren if your a virgin
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:09 PM
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Is there anything in the bible that refers to Mary as the queen of heaven?

Or anything of signifigance after Christ comes of age?
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:29 PM
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Is there anything in the bible that refers to Mary as the queen of heaven?

Or anything of signifigance after Christ comes of age?
NO.

Actually, there is nothing in Anglicanism that Quantifies her as that. Which is suprising when the above came from an Anglican Priest...however, it immediately tells you he's High Church, because she wouldnt even be refered to as "mother of GOD" by half the low church evangelicals.

Secondly, Being the Mother of GOD, would not make her Queen. Its clear that GOD the Father was on the Throne, therefore, Mary at best would be Queen Consort (she cant be Dowedger as she didnt marry, it was an immaculate conception outside of marriage to even GOD whose Spirit inpregnated her)


The most permitted would probably be "Mary, The Kings Mother"

But that is where the saying comes from. The Roman Church had a Council at Ephesus in 431, where they decided that Mary really was the Mother of GOD, they added her to the Canon as a Saint, hence the "Blessed Virgin" part. But they also added things like, how she was assumpted into Heaven. Now, there is absolutely NO proof that Mary was Assumpted. I think just because she was important to them, and because noone knew how she died or where she was laid...suddenly, she's not died at all, she's been Assumpted. VERY few people have been Assumpted...the only person to be Assumpted outside of the Old Testament was Christ...and even he physically died FIRST. He wasnt assumpted until AFTER his ressurection.

Pope Pius The Twelfth formalized in many centuries later. He wrote a great constitutional pieces, and many encyclicals. You will know him. He was The Evil Pope who sided with Hitler and Nazi Germany. Ellected 1939, one of his previous positions was what equates to the Vaticans German Ambassidor. Figures, doesnt it.
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