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  #31  
Old 01-26-2009, 06:24 PM
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He needs to get a few wins. He keeps fighting dudes like fabre he shoot fight a few up and comers and get hot again.
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  #32  
Old 01-26-2009, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Crisco
He needs to get a few wins. He keeps fighting dudes like fabre he shoot fight a few up and comers and get hot again.
someone please give him a can to smush....Cub Swanson will do nicely again

Thats what I pointed out in my Blog...okay Jens has lost a few...but lets see WHO he has lost to...Joe Lauzon..well he was till recently a contender in the LW Division...with Penn, and the conflict of interests of Penn being his former mentor, he might have got there...he might still. He's headlining UFNs now.

Baby Jay Penn...Arse by name, fighter by Nature, possibly the best pure skilled fighter to have ever lived..FEW would beat him, and at Title Level Jens did...so its just one a piece there, but he's now reigning in the UFC LW and next week about to try and capture two belts at once

Urijah Faber, Twice...Well the guy never had a working up period. He's always a champion in his division. I dont know how good he is outside WEC Featherweight...but he's mastered that class, Pulver might have dropped two against him, but the first was a dramatic five round decision thats historic...and in the second until he lost, he was winning the round.

Leonard Garcia...about to fight for the Title...I think he'll get it, and I think He'll defend it from Faber...making him possibly the immediate future of that division.

So...if you LOOK at what he's done in context...its not as bad as it sounds on his record....he is a more senior fighter, he didnt have the amateur experience, he stretched himself for years early to compete at championship level outside his own division...and he's still putting up a fight against those considered p4p...

Thats how I look at it. He's always said he wants to earn his dues...perhaps its time to place him lower the card, fight the noobs and learn, build his way back up...if he had another three fights this year and won them all...do you follow?

Even Georges Saint Pierre had to start again from scratch after his first meeting with Hughes...its part of life...and I dont think Pulver would shy away from that...its really dependant on whether those incharge will give him the chance, and whether he can come to terms and push through this rocky patch.
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  #33  
Old 01-27-2009, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
I think that Lil Evil and Jens Pulver are two separate things. I think Jens Pulver could be considered like a Host, a guy who fights, he's not bad, but he's no BJ Penn...what you saw Verses Urijah Faber...that was 90% Jens Pulver.

Now Lil Evil is something different. Almost an internal persona, I dont think Jens Pulver has much control over Lil Evil...I think you saw Lil Evil last right after the end of Cub Swanson...THAT was Lil Evil, because the speech was directed as much to himself, as Cub Swanson. I think Lil Evil was created out of trauma...and I think the longer Jens Pulver lives the more he resolves his inner conflict...that inner conflict is the life blood of Lil Evil. One day, Jens Pulver may well lose the will to fight...in the aggressive manner of his past. I think Jens likes fighting aswell...but Lil Evil is...something different, whose growth isnt just dependant on fighting an opponent...if Jens Pulver ever finds true inner peace, it will spell a possible permanent death for Lil Evil.

I just didnt want to psycho-analyse quite so much hahahahaha
Well, your psychoanalysis really irks me. You are giving his trauma, his inner conflict, in essence his abuser all the credit for his accomplishments. And I think that is totally out of line. Jens didn't accomplish what he did because of his inner demons but in spite of them. Jens got where he did through heart and determination. Jens deserves all the credit for that. To imply that he won't be able to accomplish or achieve great things when he comes to terms with his inner conflict is degrading and down right disrespectful. Jens moved passed it and prevailed. Jens the man, not some persona, deserves all the credit for that.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Neezar
Well, your psychoanalysis really irks me. You are giving his trauma, his inner conflict, in essence his abuser all the credit for his accomplishments. And I think that is totally out of line. Jens didn't accomplish what he did because of his inner demons but in spite of them. Jens got where he did through heart and determination. Jens deserves all the credit for that. To imply that he won't be able to accomplish or achieve great things when he comes to terms with his inner conflict is degrading and down right disrespectful. Jens moved passed it and prevailed. Jens the man, not some persona, deserves all the credit for that.
psychoanalysis irks me
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  #35  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:42 PM
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Well, your psychoanalysis really irks me. You are giving his trauma, his inner conflict, in essence his abuser all the credit for his accomplishments. And I think that is totally out of line. Jens didn't accomplish what he did because of his inner demons but in spite of them. Jens got where he did through heart and determination. Jens deserves all the credit for that. To imply that he won't be able to accomplish or achieve great things when he comes to terms with his inner conflict is degrading and down right disrespectful. Jens moved passed it and prevailed. Jens the man, not some persona, deserves all the credit for that.
No thats not what I'm doing at all. Lil Evil is not a demon of Jens, its the part of him who fights his oppressor. His abuser may have started conflicts that would have destroyed some people. But part of him fights those conflicts, not in order to possess them, but in order to control them, He tells us in the chapter entitled "Revelation" that there is no conquring on demons, because that allows the demons to possess you, thats how his Father went from Athlete to Abuser. ...and outside the cage Lil Evil WASNT such an effective part of Jens Psyche, Lil Evil was also self destructive, angry, hurt, and a general trouble maker! So rather then conquering his demons, Jens knows he will always have them and fights on a daily basis, not to irradicate them, but to cope with them, he calls this "Dance"

However, Lil Evil needs a turmoil to sort out, and battles to win. If there is no inner turmoil what use is there for a part of Jens Psyche to subconsciously battle?

I never said he wouldnt be able to accomplish great things without inner turmoil. I DID say that it might kill off a part of his persona developed specifically to fight inner turmoil. The fact you dont understand what I'm talking about is because you arent looking at this from a psychological point of view.

"Jens the man, not some persona" what do you think Jens the man is made of, what are we all made of? Personas, masks and defense mechanisms. Lil Evil was created as a defense mechanism, by the time he was given a name, he'd become a persona, he had his own character, he was a work ethic, he was an aggressive fighting style, Almost at points the "will" of Jens. he occasionally dropped the F'Bomb...READ Jens Pulvers blog...about the fact he swore at the end of his interview because he says he thought that was going on in his head, that the noise from the crowd brought out something which was going through his mind. This seems to raise the likelyhood that what I said about Pulvers words after the Swanson Fight were true.

Jens Pulver asked "I'm begining to Wonder whether I'm still Relevant" Lil Evil Replied "F It, I'm not done"

This is not at all degrading, everyone in the whole world uses masks, defense mechanism, reactions, et al in there everyday living...the fact he can be so honnest and write about, and show these things so vividly is what makes him so expressive...its what I find increadibly appealing

Think I'm wrong...what about the artical on WEC entitled "The Death of Lil Evil, the Ressurection of Jens Pulver" ?

“How can you be Lil’ Evil again? … You’ve got to get Lil’ Evil back.”

People say these kinds of things all the time to Jens Pulver and he doesn’t quite know how to respond. He could tell them the truth: That he hasn’t felt ‘Lil Evil’ lurking inside of him, burning to be unleashed, since late 2002. Lil’ Evil, you see, was more than just a cool-sounding nickname to Pulver, it was a full-fledged identity, it was the predominately destructive force that may have sabotaged and complicated his life outside of the cage, but made him a wrecking machine inside of it. Having little -- and consequently, virtually nothing at all to lose made him even more dangerous.

He had moved to Iowa in the late 1990’s to train with Pat Miletich’s team and had scant few possessions: two duffel bags filled with clothes and a bag filled with coins. From his debut in April 1999 – a first-round TKO where the other guy’s corner threw in the towel – until August 2002, the darkest space that dwelled inside of Pulver, overflowing with anger from a tormented childhood and a drunken, abusive father, catapulted him to a 14-2-1 mark in MMA. Pulver was a tornado, a ball of rage, and only the occasional heel hook or a toehold could stop him.

Anger, many elite fighters have testified, is not a particularly healthy or advantageous emotion inside of the cage. It clouds the mind, interferes with making sound judgments, wastes energy and can disrupt your fight strategy and lead to costly mistakes. Yet anger was a faithful ally to Pulver. Stepping into the cage with him, you weren’t an opponent, you were a soon-to-be-victim.

“I was a starving dog – what else was I going to do?” Pulver explained. “I wanted to knock everybody unconscious until I wasn’t starving any more. I used to have demons chasing me. I was mad, I was invincible and I was bulletproof. In the old days I was like, ‘You think you’re going to hit me – well I’m going to hit you six times and I’m going to hit you harder. You swing at me I’m going to hit you so hard you will never swing again. I’m going to embarrass you.”

And now, in 2009?

“The thing is, I just can’t get that mad in a fight no more,” he said. “I just can’t get that pissed off in a fight anymore. I don’t have that rip-your-head-off thing anymore.”

His record is a reflection of that diminished fury. Since January 2003, Pulver has been a .500 fighter, going 8-8. In his defense, he has never been finicky or discriminating about his opponents; he routinely fights the best in the business. Losing to top-tier fighters like B.J. Penn, Takanori Gomi, Hayato Sakurai, Urijah Faber, Leonard Garcia, Duane Ludwig and Joe Lauzon is nothing to be ashamed of, especially when you consider that the undersized Pulver fought most of his career at 155 pounds out of necessity, often giving up 20 or more pounds on fight night to his opponents. But it is how Pulver has lost over the past five years that has raised eyebrows: The banger with the crushing left hook has been knocked out or TKO’ed in six of those eight defeats.

When it comes to reinvigorating his career, and recapturing the form that made him a living MMA legend, the 34-year-old Pulver is running out of chances. Which is why Sunday’s rematch with Urijah Faber is Huge – yes, with a capital H. Lose, and Pulver will fall to 1-3 in the WEC, and invite even more criticism that perhaps this fast-evolving sport has passed him by. But if Pulver can turn back the clock, and somehow upset Faber, then suddenly a whole lot of people will undoubtedly entertain the prospect that, ‘He’s back.’

But if he is going to upend Faber, change is mandatory. Pulver would be ill-advised to simply stand and try to trade leather once again with Faber, who boasts far quicker hands and feet and can fire off 1-2 combinations and bolt out of harm’s way by the time Pulver tries to reciprocate. One blueprint for victory that intrigues Pulver was the plan executed by Mike Thomas Brown, who beat Faber by first-round TKO. Pulver has studied the fight and offered this analysis:

“What I’ve learned is that Brown just refused to get caught up in Urijah’s scramble game, while I just sat there and walked in front of Urijah and allowed him to back it up, clinch it up whenever he wanted to, run around, do this and do that,” Pulver said. “Brown
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
I never said he wouldnt be able to accomplish great things without inner turmoil. I DID say that it might kill off a part of his persona developed specifically to fight inner turmoil. The fact you dont understand what I'm talking about is because you arent looking at this from a psychological point of view.
Well, I don't know how you manage to make it sound so dirty. Jens does a much better job of saying it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn


Think I'm wrong...what about the artical on WEC entitled "The Death of Lil Evil, the Ressurection of Jens Pulver" ?

“How can you be Lil’ Evil again? … You’ve got to get Lil’ Evil back.”

People say these kinds of things all the time to Jens Pulver and he doesn’t quite know how to respond. He could tell them the truth: That he hasn’t felt ‘Lil Evil’ lurking inside of him, burning to be unleashed, since late 2002. Lil’ Evil, you see, was more than just a cool-sounding nickname to Pulver, it was a full-fledged identity, it was the predominately destructive force that may have sabotaged and complicated his life outside of the cage, but made him a wrecking machine inside of it. Having little -- and consequently, virtually nothing at all to lose made him even more dangerous. (Well, I was right about that, lol)


“The thing is, I just can’t get that mad in a fight no more,” he said. “I just can’t get that pissed off in a fight anymore. I don’t have that rip-your-head-off thing anymore.”

Well bless his heart. He is admitting right here that he just don't have it anymore. Why torture yourself then?


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Old 01-27-2009, 02:46 PM
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Btw, a true friend should slap Jens in the face and convince him that I am right and he is wrong! If he believes it was the demons doing that then yes he is doomed! I still believe that he accomplished those things in spite of his past and could do this without the anger. Someone just has to convince him of that and show him the way.

p.s. Maybe I will email him and tell him so.
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  #38  
Old 01-27-2009, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Neezar
Btw, a true friend should slap Jens in the face and convince him that I am right and he is wrong! If he believes it was the demons doing that then yes he is doomed! I still believe that he accomplished those things in spite of his past and could do this without the anger. Someone just has to convince him of that and show him the way.

p.s. Maybe I will email him and tell him so.
He doesnt believe it was the demons doing that. He believes it was Lil Evil doing that BUT, Lil Evil NEEDS demons to fight in order to stay alive.

People told him he couldnt become a World Champion...He Has..What I dont think you understand is that a perfectly peaceful Jens would have NEITHER Demons, NOR Lil Evil. He's begining to discover that those demons were wrong, and he's begining to accomplish all they said he couldnt, at that point...they subdue, when they subdue, Lil Evil doesnt have to dance...

I dont think you understand that he thinks of Lil Evil as being something other then himself, I dont think you understand how much trouble Lil Evil caused him in dancing and his life outside of the sport, I dont think you understand that Lil Evil is not a demon, he's the part of Jens who fights the demons, and the demons are finally begining to die off. They said he couldnt, he prooved he could, the demons die, Lil Evil has noone left to fight inside, finally Jens Pulver finds peace.

Having his own family I think is a big part of what has mellowed him, having achieved the Title, and defended against Baby Jay Penn is another thing. Those achievements werent the work of his demons, they were Jens Pulver using Lil Evil in a directed manner within competition.

This isnt rocket Science Denise

How do you know what is best for Jens dont you think its his decision, I very, very much doubt he will listen to someone who tries to force their views onto him, especially when they dont appear well versed in what makes him tick in the first place
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:05 PM
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Why torture yourself then?
Because Lil Evil doesnt want to die Jens has spoken about going to counselling sessions...he's spoken about controlling both the demons, and more importantly, Lil Evil, who has direct contact with them on a subconscious level

I dont think Lil Evil will ever die completely, because I dont think his Demons will ever leave him completely...but a domesticated Lil Evil with the demons on mute, is kinda likely before he hits 40 IMHO

I find them both fascinating
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn

He doesnt believe it was the demons doing that. He believes it was Lil Evil doing that BUT, Lil Evil NEEDS demons to fight in order to stay alive.

People told him he couldnt become a World Champion...He Has..What I dont think you understand is that a perfectly peaceful Jens would have NEITHER Demons, NOR Lil Evil. He's begining to discover that those demons were wrong, and he's begining to accomplish all they said he couldnt, at that point...they subdue, when they subdue, Lil Evil doesnt have to dance...

I dont think you understand that he thinks of Lil Evil as being something other then himself, I dont think you understand how much trouble Lil Evil caused him in dancing and his life outside of the sport, I dont think you understand that Lil Evil is not a demon, he's the part of Jens who fights the demons, and the demons are finally begining to die off. They said he couldnt, he prooved he could, the demons die, Lil Evil has noone left to fight inside, finally Jens Pulver finds peace.

Having his own family I think is a big part of what has mellowed him, having achieved the Title, and defended against Baby Jay Penn is another thing. Those achievements werent the work of his demons, they were Jens Pulver using Lil Evil in a directed manner within competition.

This isnt rocket Science Denise

(No, it certainly isn't. It is Dave-ku aka bullshyte )

How do you know what is best for Jens (didn't say that I did, but I can give it a shot ) dont you think its his decision, I very, very much doubt he will listen to someone who tries to force their views onto him, especially when they dont appear well versed in what makes him tick in the first place
Maybe someday we will find out about that.


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Originally Posted by Tyburn
Because Lil Evil doesnt want to die Jens has spoken about going to counselling sessions...he's spoken about controlling both the demons, and more importantly, Lil Evil, who has direct contact with them on a subconscious level (this is kinda what I mean when you make him sound like a freak show. )
I dont think Lil Evil will ever die completely, because I dont think his Demons will ever leave him completely...but a domesticated Lil Evil with the demons on mute, is kinda likely before he hits 40 IMHO

I find them both fascinating

Jens won't need counseling once he realizes that all of this is a crock of shyte. Once he realizes that he can control/harness that thing inside him he will do fine. We all have that thing in us that we fight with. It is when you try to psychoanalyze it to death instead of just managing it, that is when it gets to be a problem. It is only an issue if you make it one. Jens needs to know that you don't have to understand a bull to grab it by the horns and ride that sucka!
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