Pacquiao vs. Mayweather

"Manny Pacquiao is the fighter and every time someone asks him if he wants to fight me, he says it is up to his promoter, he's going to take a vacation, whatever the answer is," Mayweather said. "I have yet to hear him actually say, 'yes I want to fight Mayweather.' We are the fighters and if one fighter is talking about fighting another fighter, then they should just come out and say it. Manny Pacquiao doesn't say anything directly about fighting me because he might just know it's not a fight he can win."

I think Manny has started the mind games early with Floyd and is already using his leverage to gain the better deal for the fight.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by logrus

"Manny Pacquiao is the fighter and every time someone asks him if he wants to fight me, he says it is up to his promoter, he's going to take a vacation, whatever the answer is," Mayweather said. "I have yet to hear him actually say, 'yes I want to fight Mayweather.' We are the fighters and if one fighter is talking about fighting another fighter, then they should just come out and say it. Manny Pacquiao doesn't say anything directly about fighting me because he might just know it's not a fight he can win."

I think Manny has started the mind games early with Floyd and is already using his leverage to gain the better deal for the fight.

Conversely, one could say the same about Floyd, and honestly, everything is a mind game with Floyd, and he is pretty good at it.

To be fair, I will call Floyd out on this one before somebody accuses me of ignoring it... Pacquiao has said the same thing that Floyd has said in the past, and in recent history. Deferring to your handlers as "the people who make your fights" is something that is generally always done by default. It's no different than a guy in the UFC saying it's up to Dana White and Joe Silva who they fight next.

Floyd has deferred to Leonard Ellerbe and his uncle Roger on many occasions in the past, and Manny is doing no different. I don't think for one minute that Floyd actually thinks Manny is scared, he is just trying to get Manny to come back with a response. That's how you hype a fight, and that's why this fight will likely be one of the biggest Boxing matches of all time.

Originally Posted by J.B.

Conversely, one could say the same about Floyd, and honestly, everything is a mind game with Floyd, and he is pretty good at it.

To be fair, I will call Floyd out on this one before somebody accuses me of ignoring it... Pacquiao has said the same thing that Floyd has said in the past, and in recent history. Deferring to your handlers as "the people who make your fights" is something that is generally always done by default. It's no different than a guy in the UFC saying it's up to Dana White and Joe Silva who they fight next.

Floyd has deferred to Leonard Ellerbe and his uncle Roger on many occasions in the past, and Manny is doing no different. I don't think for one minute that Floyd actually thinks Manny is scared, he is just trying to get Manny to come back with a response. That's how you hype a fight, and that's why this fight will likely be one of the biggest Boxing matches of all time.

True, and I also heard guys except fights and issue them but then those fights never happened or took forever to get done (im drawing a blank on who but it will come to me). I think this is the second time Manny has done this about Floyd.

I think both would be a draw for this fight but I think Manny is the one who deserves more, he is the #1 ranked P4P, a champ of a couple bets lmao and pretty much streamed rolled everyone in every weight class he's chosen o fight in.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by logrus

True, and I also heard guys except fights and issue them but then those fights never happened or took forever to get done (im drawing a blank on who but it will come to me). I think this is the second time Manny has done this about Floyd.

I think both would be a draw for this fight but I think Manny is the one who deserves more, he is the #1 ranked P4P, a champ of a couple bets lmao and pretty much streamed rolled everyone in every weight class he's chosen o fight in.

I don't disagree that Pac has been very impressive recently, but that does not always translate into deserving more dollars. I think it's still a very close call as to who the "bigger" draw is right now and, as I said in the other thread, I think they are both feeding off each other at this point. Six months ago, I would have said Floyd deserves the lion's share but, just based on projected numbers and all the other factors, I think it needs to be a 50/50 split, with a possible win bonus or other incentives.

I realize you don't like Floyd, but the case from his side is a strong one too. People are quick to say Manny was more impressive against Oscar and Ricky, thus he is the better fighter, but that's not really a sound argument, nor does it matter in the scope of where they stand right now or historically in the rankings. It's no different than bringing up the Pacquiao/Marquez fight in 2008. Manny didn't look like the Manny of his last 3 fights, but he still won, and ultimately that is what matters. Floyd will no doubt bring up the Marquez fight, and how easily he handled Marquez. The other side will try to discredit that by bringing up the weight issue. Then Floyd will touch on the fact that Manny has lost and drawn in his career, and he is undefeated. Then the other side will say Floyd's record is padded, which is far from true. Besides, even the deepest of Floyd haters who try to claim his record is padded (usually Mosley fans) will admit that the allure of having an "undefeated" record is one of the most important aspects of what draws the general public into watching a fight.

All of it is bullcrap, and both men have fought top competition in multiple weight classes and been successful. It's an endless circle that only comes back to one logical conclusion, this fight needs to happen. Hopefully it happens soon.

We'll talk when they sign to fight and its official.

Pac with stop Mayweather.

[rockdawg21]

Negotiations are underway. Right now, it's just head games and each fighter wanting a bigger share of the purse, and there's nothing wrong with that. Both guys stand to make way too much to let it go. Now is the time and the both know it.

It'll likely end up being a 50/50 split or 45/45 + 10 going to the winner. The fight will be made. Mayweather is calling Pacquiao out and Roach is calling out Mayweather. Pac already indirectly called out Mayweather prior to the Cotto bout. It will happen, they both want it, and they're just getting the finishing touches on the contract.

[J.B.]

Here is another point I thought would be fair to take a look at and think about...

When comparing and contrasting Pac and Floyd's fights with Oscar, Ricky, and Marquez, and looking at the time line of how things have occurred, there are some important things to note.

1. Floyd did look tested in the fight with Oscar in 07, but it was also the biggest fighter Floyd had ever faced in terms of physical size/reach, and the biggest in terms of popularity. Those things certainly play a factor in how someone approaches a fight, even if they end up having little effect on the actual outcome.

2. Floyd beat Hatton very convincingly, and he did TKO him, but he was a lot less active than he was in the De La Hoya fight (by about half the amount of punches, check CompuBox).

3. While Floyd was "retired", Manny did convincingly walk through De La Hoya and Hatton, and by no means would I call them "damaged goods", but it is valid to mention a couple things. Manny was a horrible style match up for De La Hoya in the first place, and we do know Manny was not the fight Oscar really wanted. Then, there is the weight issue, but I don't see that as a real factor. I think De La Hoya was going to get tooled no matter what. He didn't WANT the fight, and Manny is just BETTER. As for Hatton, I think his lack of skills were clearly exposed by both Manny and Floyd, and the chin that was always suspect simply got convicted guilty by both Manny AND Floyd.

4. Manny did have significant problems with Marquez, AGAIN, even though he did almost finish him off early in their 08 fight. When Floyd came back and fought JMM, he looked significantly sharper and much more active than when he fought Hatton. Again, that is not taking anything away from Manny. Most of the fight game is mental, and after the first match with Marquez going to a draw, I think that played a role in how much Marquez wanted the fight. Also, some people do just have that ONE guy that gives them problems, we have seen it time and time again. Still, it is worth noting, because I'm sure Mayweather will be bringing it up, over, and over again. Of course people will try to use weight as an issue in this fight, but I will go back to the same thing I said in point number three. Floyd is just better than JMM, and we all knew it. It's also worth noting that the general way of thinking in today's Boxing world is that ANY fight over 140 is a Welterweight fight.


Now, I am not trying to play into any of the MMA-math style of thought, but rather getting to a greater point. People really give a lot of credit to Manny for how much he has improved the last few years (and they should), but it seems some people tend to use Manny's performances in an effort to discredit Floyd.

Based on what we know, from my points above, it's not out of the question to say that Floyd's game is on the rise as well. He had a tough fight with DLH, but still clearly won. Then looked less active against Hatton, but still TKO'd him. Then after taking the time off to heal his body and his hands, came back and thoroughly dominated Marquez, and he did almost finish him. Again, check the CompuBox numbers for all these fights if your memories elude you on the details, it will support my point.

Is this a new, healthy, Floyd Mayweather who's game is just now starting to flourish at Welterweight? That answer remains to be seen. Food for thought.

Originally Posted by J.B.

Here is another point I thought would be fair to take a look at and think about...

When comparing and contrasting Pac and Floyd's fights with Oscar, Ricky, and Marquez, and looking at the time line of how things have occurred, there are some important things to note.

1. Floyd did look tested in the fight with Oscar in 07, but it was also the biggest fighter Floyd had ever faced in terms of physical size/reach the biggest in terms of popularity. Those things certainly play a factor in how someone approaches a fight, even if they end up having little effect on the actual outcome.

2. Floyd beat Hatton very convincingly, and he did TKO him, but he was a lot less active than he was in the De La Hoya fight (by about half the amount of punches, check CompuBox).

3. While Floyd was "retired", Manny did convincingly walk through De La Hoya and Hatton, and by no means would I call them "damaged goods", but it is valid to mention a couple things. Manny was a horrible style match up for De La Hoya in the first place, and we do know Manny was not the fight Oscar really wanted. Then there is the weight issue, but I don't see that as a real factor. I think De La Hoya was going to get tooled no matter what. He didn't WANT the fight, and Manny is just BETTER. As for Hatton, I think his lack of skills were clearly exposed by both Manny and Floyd, and the chin that was always suspect simply got convicted guilty by both Manny AND Floyd.

4. Manny did have significant problems with Marquez, AGAIN, even though he did almost finish him off early in their 08 fight. When Floyd came back and fought JMM, he looked significantly sharper and much more active than when he fought Hatton. Again, that is not taking anything away from Manny. Most of the fight game is mental, and after the first match with Marquez going to a draw, I think that played a role in how much Marquez wanted the fight. Also, some people do just have that ONE guy that gives them problems, we have seen it time and time again. Still, it is worth noting, because I'm sure Mayweather will be bringing it up, over, and over again. Of course people will try to use weight as an issue in this fight, but I will go back to the same thing I said in point number three. Floyd is just better than JMM, and we all knew it. It's also worth noting that the general way of thinking in today's Boxing world is that ANY fight over 140 is a Welterweight fight.


Now, I am not trying to play into any of the MMA-math style of thought, but rather getting to a greater point. People really give a lot of credit to Manny for how much he has improved the last few years (and they should), but it seems some people tend to use Manny's performances in an effort to discredit Floyd.

Based on what we know, from my points above, it's not out of the question to say that Floyd's game is on the rise as well. He had a tough fight with DLH, but still clearly won. Then looked less active against Hatton, but still TKO'd him. Then after taking the time off to heal his body and his hands, came back and thoroughly dominated Marquez, and he did almost finish him. Again, check the CompuBox numbers for all these fights if your memories elude you on the details, it will support my point.

Is this a new, healthy, Floyd Mayweather who's game is just now starting to flourish at Welterweight? That answer remains to be seen. Food for thought.

I think Mayweather would have not looked as sharp if he had taken the fight sooner then coming down with the injury.

Manny did have problems with Marq both times really, but Marq vs Manny was a great match up for him then it was for Mayweather. I bet if those 2 fought another time we would be complaining about 3 disputed calls instead of 2.

the Oscar vs Floyd fight gave him troubles because Oscar threw a ton of punches, and not wild but mostly boxing styles setting up different punches and different angles. I think age was OScars worst enemy that fight too because he tired himself out throwing so much. I don't see Manny throwing himself out.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by logrus

I think Mayweather would have not looked as sharp if he had taken the fight sooner then coming down with the injury.

Manny did have problems with Marq both times really, but Marq vs Manny was a great match up for him then it was for Mayweather. I bet if those 2 fought another time we would be complaining about 3 disputed calls instead of 2.

the Oscar vs Floyd fight gave him troubles because Oscar threw a ton of punches, and not wild but mostly boxing styles setting up different punches and different angles. I think age was OScars worst enemy that fight too because he tired himself out throwing so much. I don't see Manny throwing himself out.

On your first point, I am confused...are you saying you think Floyd would have looked worse against Marquez had he fought him right after the Hatton fight? Because if so, I agree. That was part of my point that maybe he needed the time off to recover.

On your second point, I agree completley. I think if Manny and Juan fought again it would be a close fight. Some people just give other people problems, and I said that.

On the third point I agree again. Oscar's age was his worst enemy. I was not trying to compare how Oscar performed against Manny to how Manny would perform against Floyd. I was actually trying to combat that same type of mentality against those who have tried to use Manny's performances to discredit Floyd.

[rockdawg21]

The best thing to happen to Pac was the 2nd fight with Marquez. Pac was faster, stronger, and the more powerful puncher and Marquez gave Pac all he could handle. Since that fight, Pac hasn't been 100% an offensive fighter, as he had to do a lot of dodging/parrying with Hatton and Cotto. It's really made him more of a complete fighter. Plus, both fighters were on the same playing field, meaning they were in the same weight class, and that does matter.

In the case of Marquez vs. Mayweather. Mayweather proved he still has it, but Marquez did come up in weight by 10% and at age 36, no doubt slowed down his footwork and punching speed. The other thing is that Mayweather is a very defensive-style of fighter and so is Marquez, but Marquez had to go on the offensive, which has never been his style so he was at another disadvantage. Stylistically and size-wise, it was easy to predict Mayweather stomping a mudhole in Marquez' ass in that fight. Mayweather was already the bigger, stronger, and faster fighter, with a much longer reach and Marquez went up in weight by 10% in 3 months and you could easily tell it wasn't muscle.

At the very least, Mayweather proved he still has his defensive skills and it's going to be a handful for anybody to deal with. I think his style is boring as can be, but, the fact is winning on points is still part of boxing.

Mayweather had many problems with Hatton in the early going of the fight, even ducking his upper body through the ropes to avoid the hits he was taking (butthole, lol). Hatton's high pressure was pretty difficult for Mayweather to deal with, but he fought his way through it and scored the TKO with great counter-punching.

Hatton came in with the high-pressure on Pac, but Pac is a power puncher, not a finesse puncher like Mayweather. Easy KO for Pac's style.

MMAth need not apply in boxing either. The next fight will be extremely competitive as both styles are exact opposite of each other. It'll be like seeing a Marquez/Pacquiao matchup, but a larger and significantly improved version of both fighters. An epic in the making!