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  #11  
Old 02-11-2009, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger
Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?

No.. they said.. "How do you feel BJ??"
Baby Jay said.."Is it time to get up already ma??"
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  #12  
Old 02-11-2009, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger
Simple questions work
Count to 10, count backwards from 10
follow my finger with your eyes
where are we? What day of the week is it?
who is the president?

Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?

It could have been that very last blow that initiated the damage. Who's to ever know?


Those can be very good indicators but not always diagnostic.
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  #13  
Old 02-11-2009, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger
Simple questions work
Count to 10, count backwards from 10
follow my finger with your eyes
where are we? What day of the week is it?
who is the president?

Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?

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  #14  
Old 02-11-2009, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Neezar
What do you propose that the corner use as a basis to decide when there has been too many shots?
If I'm his trainer or coach, I'd know his tendencies well enough to judge for myself. Slurring speech? Probably a concussion. Eating a lot of uncontested shots to the head? Probably throwing in the towel. Coughing up blood? Probably internal injuries or too much blood draining down his throat. If the fights a bloodbath as this one supposedly was, it would be easy to tell.

In my corner, it would be my responsibility not to get emotional, or try to cling to a sliver of victory. Fighters fight, cornermen save.
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  #15  
Old 02-11-2009, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger
Simple questions work
Count to 10, count backwards from 10
follow my finger with your eyes
where are we? What day of the week is it?
who is the president?

Didn't they ask BJ if he knew where he was then called it off?
I'm not sure the GCS or using A/Ox? would be an accurate indicator in an MMA fight. At least not for any long term damage...
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  #16  
Old 02-12-2009, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose
If I'm his trainer or coach, I'd know his tendencies well enough to judge for myself. Slurring speech? Probably a concussion. Eating a lot of uncontested shots to the head? Probably throwing in the towel. Coughing up blood? Probably internal injuries or too much blood draining down his throat. If the fights a bloodbath as this one supposedly was, it would be easy to tell.

In my corner, it would be my responsibility not to get emotional, or try to cling to a sliver of victory. Fighters fight, cornermen save.
Slurred speech = concussion?

Eating uncontested shots to the head? That happens ALL the time. So do you think that there are LOTS of fights going on that should have been stopped? For example, do you think Horn vs Chuck 2 should have been stopped? What about Pulver vs Faber 1?

Coughing up blood? How could you tell if they were coughing it up from the lung or blowing it out of their nose or mouth with the cough? And did that happen in this fight? When is the last time that you heard of a fighter suffering damage from blood in his lungs? (Anybody can answer this because I am curious if it happens often at all.)

Do you think Stevenson vs Penn should have been stopped due to blood volume? What about the one with Babalu? Or Shrek?

(This topic interests me in case you couldn't tell. lol)


btw, what, if any, signs did the cornermen have that would have led them to believe that the fight needed to be stopped? Anybody have a link to the fight?
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2009, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar
Slurred speech = concussion?

Eating uncontested shots to the head? That happens ALL the time. So do you think that there are LOTS of fights going on that should have been stopped? For example, do you think Horn vs Chuck 2 should have been stopped? What about Pulver vs Faber 1?

Coughing up blood? How could you tell if they were coughing it up from the lung or blowing it out of their nose or mouth with the cough? And did that happen in this fight? When is the last time that you heard of a fighter suffering damage from blood in his lungs? (Anybody can answer this because I am curious if it happens often at all.)

Do you think Stevenson vs Penn should have been stopped due to blood volume? What about the one with Babalu? Or Shrek?

(This topic interests me in case you couldn't tell. lol)


btw, what, if any, signs did the cornermen have that would have led them to believe that the fight needed to be stopped? Anybody have a link to the fight?
You had a long post, so I'll try to answer as many questions as I possibly can, if I miss any, just ask again. Slurred speech, general fogginess, and being "out of it" are all signs of concussion. Usually, in a fight, a concussion would result from being KO'd. HOWEVER, it's possible that if you are more prone to them, or have received more than a couple in a short amount of time (as was my case playing hockey) a bump to the chin, or to the jaw can do it. Concussions are dangerous because PCS is a real bitch, and could have some long term effects.

As far as blood goes, it can be a tough one. Generally, you want it out of your nasal passages, and you really don't want it running down the back of your throat, as that can be deadly. Blood in itself isn't dangerous or bad, cuts happen, but cuts perpendicular to the eye, or if blood is running into the eyes, is where the danger lies. In the Stevenson fight, well, he got cut on the hairline, and that being a vascular area, he bled like a stuck piggy. That being said, it didn't really get into his eyes until the fight went to the ground and BJ took his back.

I've personally only ever seen one or two guys cough up blood, one was from bronchitis, and the other from internal injuries. It was obvious to me that internal damage had been done, blood was thick with mucus and half coagulated. From the picture I saw of the fight, in the link provided, the fighter's nose looks broken, and obviously there's going to be a lot of blood running down the back of his throat, especially if the fight went to the ground for any length of time. The referee inspected him, deemed him good to go, and so the fight continued.

As far as uncontested shots go, it can be pretty telling. Take a guy like Matt Hughes, doesn't get knocked out much, and even on the ground on his back his spinning around, trying to get back into the butterfly guard. That's where you hear a ref mentioning a fighter "staying busy" or trying to be an elusive target. On the flipside, in Forrest's last fight, he was EATING several shots from Evans. Those were uncontested, dangerous shots to take. He was out, or at least getting there fast. Limbs were flopping, head was getting knocked around. Stop. The. Fight.

A lot of the fighter/cornerman relationship is trust. I'd rather have a fighter never speak to me again and hate my guts than have to spoon feed a friend at age 50.
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  #18  
Old 02-12-2009, 04:43 PM
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Was their any mention of this guy having slurred speech in between rounds?





I kinda meant coughing up blood in a fight and it not be stopped. And I have sucked one drop of water or coke down 'the wrong pipe' before and almost choked to death with a coughing fit. And Steve Erkel could whoop my ass during one of these. I wonder if the body would trigger this type of coughing if blood were to go down the wrong pipe?


And I understand what you meant by uncontested shots to the head. But I have seen a few times that I wondered how the guy ever lived and their was apparently no (reported) damage.

I agree that cornmen have obligations of safety but I also believe that the signs are not as readily seen as most people believe until it is too late.
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  #19  
Old 02-12-2009, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar

I agree that cornmen have obligations of safety but I also believe that the signs are not as readily seen as most people believe until it is too late.
That's why training, experience, and straight thinking are paramount.
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  #20  
Old 02-12-2009, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose
That's why training, experience, and straight thinking are paramount.
I guess I don't get why you are saying this. Are the cornermen being used not trained? Was their signs here that should have been seen and the fight stopped? Do you know of any cases where there were clear signs that were ignored?



(Maybe I should read the article? )
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