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  #181  
Old 11-29-2009, 02:35 AM
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Also As I said and everyone else did as well it is not English so get a clue.
I told you he wasnt smart enough.
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  #182  
Old 11-29-2009, 02:54 AM
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After all, there are many inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the Bible.
I'm assuming you can provide us with a comprehensive list of exactly what those inaccuracies and inconsistencies are? You can't make a claim like that without providing some evidence.
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  #183  
Old 11-29-2009, 02:57 AM
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Why would you think that. You know the world view of the Roman Catholic Church dont you? You understand the Aristotilian idea of Earth?? does that sound ANYTHING like the Enlightenments view????

If your such of a knowledgable buff on European History or The Roman Catholic Church...or the Enlightenment...of infact on the Philosophy of Science, Philosophy of Religion...and the Classical understanding of the world...please...do enlighten us all Mr Rosario.

Where exactly have I gone "completely wrong"
I don't care what the accepted version of history is at this moment, I want to see some documents, written by the Catholic Church, from that time period that essentially declare war on the scientific community, as you claim.
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  #184  
Old 11-29-2009, 02:58 AM
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I'm assuming you can provide us with a comprehensive list of exactly what those inaccuracies and inconsistencies are? You can't make a claim like that without providing some evidence.
I think he logged off to go find them...
He'll be back when he finds them all...

I'll miss him
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  #185  
Old 11-29-2009, 03:00 AM
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I think he logged off to go find them...
He'll be back when he finds them all...

I'll miss him
What's funny is that everyone who has made an HONEST attempt to discredit the Bible has ended up becoming a Christian.
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  #186  
Old 11-29-2009, 05:56 AM
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What's funny is that everyone who has made an HONEST attempt to discredit the Bible has ended up becoming a Christian.
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  #187  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:36 AM
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I don't care what the accepted version of history is at this moment, I want to see some documents, written by the Catholic Church, from that time period that essentially declare war on the scientific community, as you claim.
They Ex-Communicated a lot of Enlightenment people, like copernicus. That is a declairation of war. I cant show you the document, because it doesnt exist any more for two reasons...first one would have traveled by horseback from the Vatican to be given to the man himself...and the second, probably stored in the Vatican wont exist any more.

I told you, they have since changed their minds...and a later Pope reversed the Excommunication

Do you want me to find the names of the two Popes...or will you just accept that the Church and Enlightenment didnt get along, and the Church was wrong

The Roman Catholics use a law called Latae sententiae for whats known as automatic ex-communications for naughty people whose actions are obviously heretical, as the Enlightenment was at the time. Judging on this...I suppose you want me to proove that the Church didnt hold the Enlightenment view in the first place...otherwise you cant hold the enlightenment in Latae Sententiae can you.

Well Pope Saint Pius Tenth wrote a book called Encyclical Pascendi in which the Aristotilian model adopted by Scholasticism under Saint Thomas Aquinus was held to be THE truth. I've never had to research the obvious before...and it doesnt help that every time there is a new pope, Rome changes its mind AND rome was busy with two conflicting thoughts "humanism V Scholasticism" and also of two issues with the Pope, those who thought he was above the council of Bishops, and those who thought he was subservient to the council of Bishops" and finally, they were still recovering from The Orthodox Split....so its not easy to proove what the church actually thought about anything with much claritiy, and even with clarity, that changed everytime something happened in the Vatican.

So the excommunications are about the only proof, plus the view that the Church masses generally believed in the Aristotilian Model, which is what was replaced by the Enlightenment is about all your going to get. Reading the Enlightenment Philosophers though its obvious they didnt agree with the Roman Church at all. Look at "GOD in Emmanuel Kant" and tell me whether even a Protestant Church would aggree with his ideal of GOD...the answer is no...Kants god is impersonal...it bars the whole possibility of having a personal relationship with Christ...it pretty much bars Christ...and it makes GOD completely irrelevent from the moment that Creation was completed.

Face it, the Enlightenment was the end of all churches :(
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  #188  
Old 11-29-2009, 10:48 AM
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My opinion you are wrong. Have you evan read the Bible?
I'm ok with your opinion, but I disagree with that. Yes I have read the bible. It's been a while since I have read it and I will acknowledge that I haven't thoroughly studied it. I have also read tales of mythology (which is the literary category I would place the Bible in) but haven't studied those either since my high-school days. I don't mean to sound rude and I realize that my beliefs are unpopular with the members of this forum, but I don't consider the Bible to be be anything other than a work of fiction with some historical accounts mixed in as well. I'm not saying it isn't an important book with literary value, but I consider it to be a book written by mankind and not the inspired word of God. Having read it showed me that there are many things wrong with it.

Before I realized I was agnostic, I saw many things that didn't seem quite right with it. After I realized that the Bible wasn't an infallible document, I looked at it differently. There are many great words of wisdom in there and many great lessons to be learned, so I think that it is a very important book. I just don't believe it to be the word of God.

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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
I'm assuming you can provide us with a comprehensive list of exactly what those inaccuracies and inconsistencies are? You can't make a claim like that without providing some evidence.
Yes I could and I am, though since others have already done the legwork on this, I am sure that you are quite able to use google and keywords to find the information yourself. I'm not out to win a prize or get a grade for this so it is of little importance to me; and frankly I don't feel like spending the few minutes of time to do it so I can read your insulting comments in regard to the links I would provide. If you wish to provide information to counter my beliefs, feel free to post it and I will gladly take a look at it. So far I haven't read anything that has been able to change my mind or beliefs, but I'm still open to that possibility.

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Originally Posted by Llamafighter View Post
I think he logged off to go find them...
He'll be back when he finds them all...

I'll miss him
It would take very little of my time, but that short amount of time that it would take isn't worth it to me when the information is there for all to find with just a few good keywords and any search engine.

I wish you well in your walk and am by no means trying to belittle your beliefs. I hope you will offer me the same in return.

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What's funny is that everyone who has made an HONEST attempt to discredit the Bible has ended up becoming a Christian.
That's a mighty big statement you have made there. Can you provide anything to back that up?

I'm always open to new ideas, and if there is evidence to counter my beliefs then I will surely give it a fair chance. I can't say I believe in something when I actually don't. That would be lying to myself. That is why I am agnostic in my beliefs. There are so many differing viewpoints and beliefs about Christianity, and those who call themselves Christians can't even agree on a shared belief. It boggles my mind. How does one know if they have the correct beliefs?
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  #189  
Old 11-29-2009, 10:57 AM
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I'm ok with your opinion, but I disagree with that. Yes I have read the bible. It's been a while since I have read it and I will acknowledge that I haven't thoroughly studied it. I have also read tales of mythology (which is the literary category I would place the Bible in)

whats mythological about Macabees
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  #190  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:00 PM
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whats mythological about Macabees
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... I don't consider the Bible to be be anything other than a work of fiction with some historical accounts mixed in as well.
See the bold text above.
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