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  #21  
Old 10-26-2009, 01:28 PM
surveyorshawn
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Originally Posted by adamt View Post
this same amount of controversy would be occuring had shogun took the belt away with such a close fight and indecisive win..... someone shoulda done something to win. But shogun had that responsibility more.... when it is close the belt NEEDS to stay with the champ... shogun shoulda earned it, which he clearly did not, i think everyone can agree on that, shogun shoulda finished it,
Exactly. You have to take the belt from the champ. Even Shogun admitted he was conservative because he thought he was ahead & did not want to make any mistakes. Sometimes you have got to go for it!
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  #22  
Old 10-26-2009, 02:00 PM
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The people that think Rua was robbed spent way too much time listening to Goldberg and Rogan without actually watching the fight. I'm starting to hate UFC commentating more and more. At first it was only Mike that annoyed me, but lately Joe seems to be engaging in spinning a fight to make casual viewers think a fight is more exciting than it actually is. Joe was also likely high on something...

Personally, I was thoroughly disappointed with the fight, and a rematch steams of "meh..." Rua blew it when he listened to a corner that told him he was winning.
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  #23  
Old 10-26-2009, 02:05 PM
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I am normally a Rogan fan, but you would have thought that he was Ninja Hua the way he was hugging in him....or at least ghey for him..
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  #24  
Old 10-26-2009, 07:24 PM
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Again all you guys that think Machida actualy won... you should revisit the fightMetrics link I posted...

Machida did nothing to win that fight... period
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  #25  
Old 10-26-2009, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamt View Post
this same amount of controversy would be occuring had shogun took the belt away with such a close fight and indecisive win..... someone shoulda done something to win. But shogun had that responsibility more.... when it is close the belt NEEDS to stay with the champ... shogun shoulda earned it, which he clearly did not, i think everyone can agree on that, shogun shoulda finished it,
Yeah, but at least it would have been the right call. Shogun won that fight, and it has nothing to do with Joe Rogan's commentary.

Saying Shogun had MORE responsibility to win, and all this "you gotta beat the champ" talk is some of the most flawed logic in all of fighting. Please, if you would, explain to me why you think the belt NEEDS to stay with the champ after a close fight? Especially when you are talking about a champ who had never even defended his belt prior to that fight and the belt itself had not been successfully defended in over 2 years.

The people who think Machida won are certainly entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is. However it's pretty baseless to assume that people who think Shogun won are simply going off what Joe Rogan was saying. Especially when most of the major media in MMA has come out saying they thought Shogun won, and even Dana White himself seemed to hint that he thought the call was BS.
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  #26  
Old 10-26-2009, 09:28 PM
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I'm a Machida fan, and I was shocked at the decision. I'm not happy with it at all. Shogun clearly won the fight. I didn't hear him say it this time, but I agree with Rogan's past voiced opinion that too many MMA judges come from boxing, and they tend to overlook anything other than hand strikes and the obvious takedown. This is not the first bad decision I've had to swallow, but I believe it's the worst.
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2009, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake View Post
Yeah, but at least it would have been the right call. Shogun won that fight, and it has nothing to do with Joe Rogan's commentary.

Saying Shogun had MORE responsibility to win, and all this "you gotta beat the champ" talk is some of the most flawed logic in all of fighting. Please, if you would, explain to me why you think the belt NEEDS to stay with the champ after a close fight? Especially when you are talking about a champ who had never even defended his belt prior to that fight and the belt itself had not been successfully defended in over 2 years.

The people who think Machida won are certainly entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is. However it's pretty baseless to assume that people who think Shogun won are simply going off what Joe Rogan was saying. Especially when most of the major media in MMA has come out saying they thought Shogun won, and even Dana White himself seemed to hint that he thought the call was BS.
Your a boxing fan though. SO you know this is pretty much a true fact even in that sport. The one who holds the title seems to always have a slight edge that dictates the closer a round looks, the more likely it will favor the champ. Even the announcers say those same lines. We could even go a step further in saying that the more popular fighter will in most cases get the benefit of the doubt.

The rounds looked close baring bad positioning by the judges this could easily have played with there reception of reality.
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  #28  
Old 10-27-2009, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logrus View Post
Your a boxing fan though. SO you know this is pretty much a true fact even in that sport. The one who holds the title seems to always have a slight edge that dictates the closer a round looks, the more likely it will favor the champ. Even the announcers say those same lines. We could even go a step further in saying that the more popular fighter will in most cases get the benefit of the doubt.

The rounds looked close baring bad positioning by the judges this could easily have played with there reception of reality.
The idea started in Boxing, and I am quite familiar with it. However it's also a lot different in Boxing, but still no less controversial.

Like I said in another post pertaining to this entire issue, Boxing has usually 10 or 12 rounds. This presents much more of an opportunity for guys to try and edge out the fight by doing JUST enough to win rounds, or by doing little things like jab a guy to death and then try to explode in the last 30 seconds of a round to win judges over. Because MMA matches have less rounds, that is less of a chance for a fighter to try and come back when they start losing a fight in the first couple rounds.

There is no doubt that certain fighters get special treatment from certain judges, and it's complete BS no matter how you slice it. Still, it is NOT always like that in Boxing either, just like it was not like that for Rampage/Forrest. If you look at the 2nd Pacquiao/Marquez fight, they gave that fight to Pac-Man and Marquez was the Champion, even though it is still believed by many people that Marquez actually won.

So even though there is merit to the idea that the mindset exists in some people, and probably some judges, it is still nothing more than a tired cliche that is based on flawed logic.
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  #29  
Old 10-27-2009, 12:49 AM
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Here is what Cecil Peoples had to say about the fight.


"First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn't effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight - if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida."

"You have to keep in mind we always the favor the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that."

"When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control."

"I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favor, where as unsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I'm just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I'm sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too."



The problem seems to be that people dont rank leg kicks as high as punches
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  #30  
Old 10-27-2009, 01:48 AM
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Peoples makes some good points in attempting to back up his decision, but it don't mean that people are going to magically agree. He is notorious for being all over the place in his decisions, not to mention he also was a judge who scored the fight for Bisping over Hamil in that controversial decision.

Judges get it wrong from time to time, or just plain see things differently, but over the years Peoples has seen himself at the root of controversy more times than any judge should.

Here's a picture of Cecil

Last edited by J.B.; 10-27-2009 at 02:08 AM.
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