I didn't know they had such strict rules on who can buy a team!

[flo]

Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE

I didn't know this had been posted when I started my thread!

lol, I don't think it was, he posted it late yesterday afternoon on his Twitter acct. and then CNN.

Well, I didn't mean to argue so vociferously (sorry, JB!) but as you can probably tell, I'm a Rush fan and have been for years. If people don't like him, his style, his politics, his looks - OK, I can dig it - we all have different tastes. But I find it very scary that a journalist can affect someone's right to offer to invest in a team by perpetuating the worst untruths about that person. For political reasons alone.

And I thought his apology on twitter, "Our bad", says a lot about Rich Sanchez's character.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by flo

Here, JB, read this. It's hardly a conservative rag.

http://www.slate.com/id/2089193/


I am more than willing to bet not one of your stats is from the time Rush made that comment, 2003. So what you posted really has no bearing on his statement as Rush was talking about 2003, not predicting the future.

He is anything but an idiot. BTW, he wasn't talking about the Philly media alone, he was talking about sports media in general.

You're also wrong about why the group of investors chose not to work with him. I'm sure they were well aware of his past statements; it happens to be the LIES Rick Sanchez attributed to him - parroted by Jackson, Sharpton, et al - that caused the "distraction" to make them opt out of partnership with him.

Of course, I'm only going by their own public statement, I can't read their minds.

It doesn't matter that it was 2003, Rush tried to say that Mcnabb has never been a good QB and he was wrong, not like that's a first. The numbers I posted are CAREER records, so obviously they are deeper than just 03, but that's not the point. Go look up his career stats, even in 2003 when the Eagles were slipping, he passed for over 3,000 yards. Proof that Rush was just talking out his ass. Also, if Rush is such a genius, and he thought Mcnabb was garbage from the start, he really did miss the boat after looking at the numbers I posted in my last response.

I'm not wrong about why they chose to work with him. You are just not looking at what I am actually saying, and reading my words as if I am some sort of "anti-Rush" guy, but thats not the case. It does not matter if the quote about slavery is bogus, Rush draws a lot of controversy just being Rush, and for that it is my opinion that the guy is better off not being involved with an NFL team. I'm not saying if he DID own a team that it would be bad or anything, just that I see his status as a distraction.

Sometimes things ARE what they seem, and this is one of those cases. There is no conspiracy against conservatives here, even though I'm sure Rush will be saying the opposite on his radio show for the next few months.

[flo]

Well, you didn't read the article I posted, it talked about McNabb's first 3 years and that his stats were nothing to brag about. Here is the actual Rush quote:

"I don't think he's been that good from the get-go. I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

He didn't say McNabb was never a good quarterback. He didn't say McNabb was garbage. I never said Rush was a genius. Those are all your words.

It doesn't change the fact that McNabb was not doing a stellar job in '03 and this was Rush's opinion as to what he felt the media wanted.

It DOES matter that the supposed "quotes" about slavery, etc. were lies, that's what started the whole brouhaha. Where did I say there was a conspiracy? Are you really saying you don't think all the bleating with the fake quotes wasn't political? Then what was it? Why did Rick Sanchez say it on CNN?

There are just as many "controversial" owners in the NFL as in any other sport. This was a concerted, partisan effort to deny Rush the opportunity to buy in with the consortium.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Obviously, neither of us is going to be swayed.

[flo]

Plus, I just like to argue.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by flo

Well, you didn't read the article I posted, it talked about McNabb's first 3 years and that his stats were nothing to brag about. Here is the actual Rush quote:

"I don't think he's been that good from the get-go. I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

He didn't say McNabb was never a good quarterback. He didn't say McNabb was garbage. I never said Rush was a genius. Those are all your words.

It doesn't change the fact that McNabb was not doing a stellar job in '03 and this was Rush's opinion as to what he felt the media wanted.

It DOES matter that the supposed "quotes" about slavery, etc. were lies, that's what started the whole brouhaha. Where did I say there was a conspiracy? Are you really saying you don't think all the bleating with the fake quotes wasn't political? Then what was it? Why did Rick Sanchez say it on CNN?

There are just as many "controversial" owners in the NFL as in any other sport. This was a concerted, partisan effort to deny Rush the opportunity to buy in with the consortium.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Obviously, neither of us is going to be swayed.

I know the quote, and I would not have commented if I didn't. I'm sorry, but no, I did not read that entire article, I simply looked it over. I don't need to read something I already know. Mcnabb DID get a lot of flack for not living up to every sport-writer's and fanboy's unrealistic expectations of a third year QB, that's how it works in football.

Isn't that the crux of Rush's arguement? That Mcnabb did NOT get enough negative press because he is black? Doesn't the fact that a crapload of people were talking about him in a negative light and the fact that there were talks of trading him disprove that theory?

Also, let's fast forward to 2009. Mcnabb has been scrutinized his whole career for one thing or another, yet he is still one of the best QB's in the league, and he is a legit hall of fame candidate. How can anybody actually believe that there is or was some sort of media conspiracy to overrate him simply because he is black? I am not trying to be rude, but that simply defies the laws of rational thought. Like I already said before, the NFL has stars of all races, there is no need for them to push a black QB on their fans.

Besides, it's not like all football fans are stupid meatheads. When fans see a player perform bad, they call him out. If the NFL and the media made some sort of grand scheme to push a player who sucked, it would not last long. It's like Kimbo Slice, the UFC is only gonna let him lose so many times before they show him the door. NFL fans don't care about color unless it's the one on their jerseys, all they care about is winning.

Rush said "I don't think he's been that good from the get-go..." which is equal to saying he's never been a good QB...that one is easy to see. Yes, you are right, the term "garbage" was my addition to the conversation, but when put in context, it's clear to see what I meant. No, you did not call Rush a genius, I was simply driving home my point that he was wrong about Mcnabb.

You also did not use the word "conspiracy", but that's pretty much the gist of what is being thrown around. Some people are trying make it seem like the NFL is out to keep Rush out of the league, and that's not the case. It's not the NFL who did anything to Rush, it was the group of investors who decided to drop him. Was it political? Hell yeah it was political. Why? Because Rush is a POLITICAL CELEBRITY. I am not saying it is okay to make up lies about the guy, not at all. I am just saying that when you are in the line of work he is in, and you have as big of a target on your head as he does, it can create a distraction that is not good for business. It's sad that things are like that, but it's just a fact of life. Sure, places like CNN and other media outlets that cater to the left are going to attack Rush, that is nothing new, but this is not something that comes from the high ranks of the NFL looking to keep him out. Heck, the league President, Roger Goodell, is married to Jane Skinner who is an anchor for FOX News, and her father was White House Chief of Staff under Geroge H.W. Bush. So, I think it's safe to say that he is a conservative, lol.

Going back to the link you posted earlier about Fergie, Serena Williams, and Jenifer Lopez, good luck convincing the general public that those three are more controversial than Limbaugh. Sure, they may have some controversial lyrics from time to time, drop an F-bomb or two, maybe even piss themselves on stage, but they are not the same kind of celebrity that Rush is. He is under intense scrutiny at all times because he is a celebrity simply for giving opinions, and we all know that politics is a nasty game. I never knew, or cared, that any of those three are minority owners, but as soon as Rush decided to put his name in the hat it became front page news. What do you think would happen if he actually did have ownership? My opinion is that it would just bring unneeded drama to the team and to the sports media in St. Louis.

Really, be mad at the liberal media and leftards for attacking Rush, that is legit, but taking it to the next level and blaming the league or even drumming up old news and false theories about media bias towards black players is ridiculous at the least and ultra paranoid at worst, that's all I'm really saying.

[flo]

I see where you're coming from and you make many good points. I do agree with you on several of them and - I concede that had Rush become a part-owner, maybe it would have been a big distraction for the Rams and their fans and community.

Anyway, I still don't agree with all but am conceding to some.

JB Mcnabb is no where near one of the top QB'S in the league. Why do you think they brought in Vick for. They didn't need him. Wasn't it just last year when coach Reid benched him for a game.
Talking about stats. He is not in the top ten in qb rating. Here's the list.
1 Peyton Manning, QB IND 181 133 73.5 1645 9.09 80 12 4 2 114.1 329
2 Eli Manning, QB NYG 135 87 64.4 1212 8.98 55 10 2 2 111.7 242
3 Drew Brees, QB NOR 129 87 67.4 1031 7.99 58 9 2 4 108.4 258
4 Brett Favre, QB MIN 149 103 69.1 1069 7.17 47 9 2 11 104.1 214
5 Matt Hasselbeck, QB SEA 84 53 63.1 617 7.35 44 7 2 2 103.1 206
6 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 123 82 66.7 977 7.94 90 7 2 2 102.9 244
7 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 172 127 73.8 1470 8.55 51 8 5 13 102.6 294
8 Aaron Rodgers, QB GNB 127 77 60.6 1098 8.65 62 6 1 20 101.1 275
9 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 179 115 64.2 1418 7.92 72 10 4 8 97.9 284
10 Kyle Orton, QB DEN 165 104 63.0 1236 7.49 87 7 1 8 97.4 247
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
11 Philip Rivers, QB SDG 150 88 58.7 1245 8.30 81 6 3 10 90.6 311
12 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 182 117 64.3 1289 7.08 72 9 5 7 90.2 258
13 Kurt Warner, QB ARI 160 106 66.3 1165 7.28 40 6 4 8 89.7 291
14 Jay Cutler, QB CHI 129 83 64.3 901 6.98 68 8 5 8 89.3 225
15 Kevin Kolb, QB PHI 96 62 64.6 741 7.72 71 4 3 3 88.9 185
16 Jason Campbell, QB WAS 147 98 66.7 1108 7.54 59 6 5 13 88.5 222
17 David Garrard, QB JAC 169 100 59.2 1129 6.68 34 5 1 11 86.6 226
18 Tony Romo, QB DAL 165 96 58.2 1341 8.13 80 6 4 9 86.5 268
19 Tom Brady, QB NWE 207 127 61.4 1344 6.49 36 6 2 5 85.9 269
20 Matt Cassel, QB KAN 130 76 58.5 711 5.47 43 7 2 14 85.1 178
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
21 Seneca Wallace, QB SEA 112 74 66.1 645 5.76 39 3 2 8 82.6 129
22 Marc Bulger, QB STL 75 42 56.0 427 5.69 45 2 0 5 81.4 107
23 Shaun Hill, QB SFO 144 81 56.3 898 6.24 61 5 2 16 80.7 180
24 Carson Palmer, QB CIN 168 97 57.7 1116 6.64 73 7 6 10 76.9 223
25 Chad Pennington, QB MIA 74 51 68.9 413 5.58 21 1 2 6 76.0 138
26 Mark Sanchez, QB NYJ 134 75 56.0 916 6.84 53 5 5 10 74.1 183
27 Trent Edwards, QB BUF 148 86 58.1 942 6.37 43 5 6 18 71.4 188
28 Byron Leftwich, QB TAM 107 58 54.2 594 5.55 47 4 3 2 71.2 198
29 Kerry Collins, QB TEN 185 106 57.3 1078 5.83 69 5 7 6 67.4 216
30 Kyle Boller, QB STL 86 49 57.0 481 5.59 35 2 3 7 66.1 160
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
31 Matthew Stafford, QB DET 139 79 56.8 894 6.43 64 3 6 10 65.5 224
32 Brady Quinn, QB CLE 74 45 60.8 400 5.41 26 1 3 10 62.9 133
33 Jake Delhomme, QB CAR 116 70 60.3 782 6.74 32 3 8 10 60.3 196
34 Josh Johnson, QB TAM 82 43 52.4 382 4.66 31 3 4 6 57.1 96
35 JaMarcus Russell, QB OAK 121 51 42.1 606 5.01 57 1 4 15 47.1 121
36 Derek Anderson, QB CLE 84 39 46.4 384 4.57 30 1 5 4 39.0 128

In fact I didn't even see him on the list.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by donaldbreland

JB Mcnabb is no where near one of the top QB'S in the league. Why do you think they brought in Vick for. They didn't need him. Wasn't it just last year when coach Reid benched him for a game.
Talking about stats. He is not in the top ten in qb rating. Here's the list.
1 Peyton Manning, QB IND 181 133 73.5 1645 9.09 80 12 4 2 114.1 329
2 Eli Manning, QB NYG 135 87 64.4 1212 8.98 55 10 2 2 111.7 242
3 Drew Brees, QB NOR 129 87 67.4 1031 7.99 58 9 2 4 108.4 258
4 Brett Favre, QB MIN 149 103 69.1 1069 7.17 47 9 2 11 104.1 214
5 Matt Hasselbeck, QB SEA 84 53 63.1 617 7.35 44 7 2 2 103.1 206
6 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 123 82 66.7 977 7.94 90 7 2 2 102.9 244
7 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 172 127 73.8 1470 8.55 51 8 5 13 102.6 294
8 Aaron Rodgers, QB GNB 127 77 60.6 1098 8.65 62 6 1 20 101.1 275
9 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 179 115 64.2 1418 7.92 72 10 4 8 97.9 284
10 Kyle Orton, QB DEN 165 104 63.0 1236 7.49 87 7 1 8 97.4 247
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
11 Philip Rivers, QB SDG 150 88 58.7 1245 8.30 81 6 3 10 90.6 311
12 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 182 117 64.3 1289 7.08 72 9 5 7 90.2 258
13 Kurt Warner, QB ARI 160 106 66.3 1165 7.28 40 6 4 8 89.7 291
14 Jay Cutler, QB CHI 129 83 64.3 901 6.98 68 8 5 8 89.3 225
15 Kevin Kolb, QB PHI 96 62 64.6 741 7.72 71 4 3 3 88.9 185
16 Jason Campbell, QB WAS 147 98 66.7 1108 7.54 59 6 5 13 88.5 222
17 David Garrard, QB JAC 169 100 59.2 1129 6.68 34 5 1 11 86.6 226
18 Tony Romo, QB DAL 165 96 58.2 1341 8.13 80 6 4 9 86.5 268
19 Tom Brady, QB NWE 207 127 61.4 1344 6.49 36 6 2 5 85.9 269
20 Matt Cassel, QB KAN 130 76 58.5 711 5.47 43 7 2 14 85.1 178
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
21 Seneca Wallace, QB SEA 112 74 66.1 645 5.76 39 3 2 8 82.6 129
22 Marc Bulger, QB STL 75 42 56.0 427 5.69 45 2 0 5 81.4 107
23 Shaun Hill, QB SFO 144 81 56.3 898 6.24 61 5 2 16 80.7 180
24 Carson Palmer, QB CIN 168 97 57.7 1116 6.64 73 7 6 10 76.9 223
25 Chad Pennington, QB MIA 74 51 68.9 413 5.58 21 1 2 6 76.0 138
26 Mark Sanchez, QB NYJ 134 75 56.0 916 6.84 53 5 5 10 74.1 183
27 Trent Edwards, QB BUF 148 86 58.1 942 6.37 43 5 6 18 71.4 188
28 Byron Leftwich, QB TAM 107 58 54.2 594 5.55 47 4 3 2 71.2 198
29 Kerry Collins, QB TEN 185 106 57.3 1078 5.83 69 5 7 6 67.4 216
30 Kyle Boller, QB STL 86 49 57.0 481 5.59 35 2 3 7 66.1 160
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
31 Matthew Stafford, QB DET 139 79 56.8 894 6.43 64 3 6 10 65.5 224
32 Brady Quinn, QB CLE 74 45 60.8 400 5.41 26 1 3 10 62.9 133
33 Jake Delhomme, QB CAR 116 70 60.3 782 6.74 32 3 8 10 60.3 196
34 Josh Johnson, QB TAM 82 43 52.4 382 4.66 31 3 4 6 57.1 96
35 JaMarcus Russell, QB OAK 121 51 42.1 606 5.01 57 1 4 15 47.1 121
36 Derek Anderson, QB CLE 84 39 46.4 384 4.57 30 1 5 4 39.0 128

In fact I didn't even see him on the list.

Clearly you are a bit misguided my friend. Anybody can pull up stats, but if you can't put them into context then it's pointless.

Mcnabb has only played 2 games this season because he was injured, so that is not a fair comparison by any means when trying determine where he lies in relation to other QB's. Yeah, Reid did bench him for a game, but that happens. Kurt Warner was riding the bench for Matt Leinart here in Arizona just a couple seasons ago, and I think we all know Warner is a Hall of Famer. Mcnabb helped take that same Eagles team to last year's NFC championship. So, unless it's just blind Rush Limbaugh love talking, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that Mcnabb is not a good QB.

The Eagles brought in Michael Vick because of his versatility and to test the waters with him at backup QB and possibly to run the wildcat formation more often. Not as a replacement to Mcnabb, at least not RIGHT NOW. Maybe if Mcnabb gets hurt or retires, but not right now. If you REALLY think they brought in Vick to replace Mcnabb, I suggest you start watching more football.

[flo]

True, all that. Our poor team (the Seahawks, I know, I know...) has had an injured quarterback for most of this year and Matt Hasselbeck has been injured on and off for several years, so his stats are misleading also.

[VCURamFan]

FYI, my RAIDERS just sacked McNabb 6 times today. Just my 2 coppers for this conversations.















(actually, I'm just stoked about our win & wanted to boast somewhere!)