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  #41  
Old 10-12-2009, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake View Post
Dave, while I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I think you are making a much bigger issue out of this than it actually is.


1. I am not saying that employers should not care about their employees. This has nothing to do with an American vs European thing. It's common sense, if you act like an ass, you will lose your job.

2. This is NOT discrimination against people with mental health issues. Again, if you freak out and assault a bunch of people, or try to run them over with your car, it's not your employers responsibility to come to your aid. Thats not how life works.

3. The UFC can't really "blacklist" the guy as a fighter. Sure, they can keep him out of the UFC, and that IS what they should have done, but there are other places that the guy could fight. The bottom line is that the UFC is a business, and the entire sport is constantly trying to fight off stereotypes that it is full of violent thugs. Character is VERY important in any profession, and you can't expect a company at the highest place in any industry to associate themselves with people who reflect poorly on the company.

4. You don't need to explain anything to me about clinical depression or anxiety. I most certainly do understand what stress is, as does about 95% of the normal world. I absolutely agree with you that there ARE people who have REAL mental health issues, but in this day and age they have a diagnosis for everything. If you can pay for it, any shrink will keep you coming back, it's a joke. In my opinion, it's one of the biggest problems with kids these days, as soon as they act up at school or cry about something, the parents take them to a doctor and get them on anti-depressants, effectively turning them into zombies who don't know how to cope without drugs.

I am not mocking anybody. I really do think that people who do the kind of things that Rampage and Junie did, do deserve a swift kick in the ass. Even if they have a REAL mental health issue, they still need to realize that they cannot just do whatever they want and hurt people. I'm not saying it is a definite fact in their cases, but just my observation that most people who act out the way Junie and Rampage did are usually fueled by drugs or alcohol. Being high or drunk and assaulting people does not make you mentally ill, it just makes you a criminal.

5. I did not say to lock him up for life Dave. A LOT of people do short stints in jail or prison and get out and turn their life around. If that is not enough and the person messes up again, then that is their fault. Again, you say he needs drugs and a hospital bed, but that is ridiculous. Is that how we should treat all people who commit crimes? Jail is supposed to be a place where you go to pay for what you have done. Not where you get to lay around in a drug induced haze.

6. Americans are VERY helping of their fellow people. Quit making this about America. This has nothing to do with not wanting to help people, it's about people dealing with the consequences of their actions, be it losing your job with a major sports league or even going directly to jail. Of course as a Christian I pray for their souls, but that does not mean I cannot be critical of their actions.
Good points, I feel the same.
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  #42  
Old 10-12-2009, 10:57 PM
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1) i respectfully wholeheartedly dissagree.

There may be a larger point you are attempting to make about how oppressive labor laws are in Europe, and I can understand that. However, there is no connection between my opinion on what the UFC should or should not have done with people like Rampage and Junie and any sort of decline in the fabric of America or it's employers.

2) I didnt say organised Crime. I said Mafia...and thats just what someone else told me

Organized crime and the term "Mafia" go hand in hand my friend. The "Mafia" is just a term that gets loosely applied to Italian gangs here in America. Regardless, I doubt it's true, and if it was I would be willing to bet you that the Fertita bros would not bother using ties with the mob to deal with the likes of Junie.

3) You'd be lucky to get the meds you need in England. I dont think you realize how vastly different our medical procedures are. Its not really a generalization. There are ZERO marketting of drugs in England, its illegal for that to happen. Also, doctors dont have the same pressure from drugs firms that they do in the US to market/sell products to get endorsements or help from those drug companies.

I take real exception to the way your Country manages Health Care. You know the NHS isnt perfect, but we simply dont have this problem in large ammounts....and we dont have self-perscription Period.

Sure, maybe it is a bigger problem here in America. What I said was, don't say it ONLY happens in America, because you can't prove that. Money makes this world go around, and I don't care where you live, there are doctors who will take your money and give you what you want. Yeah, America's health care is messed up, but it's a very complex issue and no one thing is going to fix it easily.

4) really? You'd be amazed at how accurate I can be with a little bit of research. I remember esposing all kinds of things about Jens Pulver based on what i'd seen, and read. Only to have it more or less confirmed in person when we met.

People with mental health issues, or deep psyches are easily identifiable to trained people. Whilst I'm not qualified as a Psychologist, I have qualifications in it....I also have experience of mental health issues. I think I know what I'm talking about more often then you are giving me credit for it

No, not everyone has "issues" its as simple as that. You have no idea how hard life can be for someone with mental ill health unless you've suffered it yourself...and a close friend or familiy member is not good enough. If you've ever been to the edge, then you would understand, if you havent then GOOD, I hope its a place you NEVER find yourself. But there are those of us who have been to that place, and its not something that the vast majority of people will EVER have to deal with. thats just truth.

With all due respect, even if you were a trained shrink, it don't mean you can psychoanalyze people by watching a heavily edited TV show designed for ratings. Sure, some things are obvious, but that don't mean you know the whole story. Just because people THINK they have had it worse then others, don't mean they all of a sudden have a deeper understanding of life than people who have not experienced the exact same issues. I have had LOTS of crazy stuff, and I could sit here and tell stories of doctors, depression, addiction, and suicidal tendencies all day long, but it don't mean jack sqaut. None of that makes me an expert on breaking down other peoples minds, and it don't make you one either.

YES, Dave, EVERYBODY has issues in this world. We all deal with life, death, love, and hate. Sometimes the tiniest pebbles can cause landslides, even in the strongest of minds. It is NOT the individual events that define our lives, it is how we react to those events which makes us who we are.

Are there people with serious and legitimate mental health issues? OF COURSE! However, most people that I have encountered or been exposed to in my life who claim to have mental problems are nothing more than people looking for an excuse to justify bad behavior. Does that mean ALL people do that, NO, and I never said that.


4) do you know that in proportion to the rest of the world, America has one of the lowest populations of Citizens, and yet somehow has one of the highest percentages of its population in prison. The problem with your justice system is its manned by hawks actively looking for would-be criminals. when you say assult...then I expect you to mean someone got cuts, bruises, broken bones, possibly stabbed...THATS an assult. Lashing out at someone because they are trying to unlawfully detain you, unless you cause injury, is not worthey of anything more then a reprimand. Heavens above...they would jail you in the states for raising your hand to a customs official

...and I've experienced myself something of this I might add. If you think you live in a free society, I suggest you go to your nearest mall and get out a camera and see what happens. Pay GREAT attention to what I say in the last two moments of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t12ZBMTg0Qo

So, because Junie did not stab anybody or break any bones we should just give him a slap on the wrist and maybe some anti-depressants and nice cushy hospital bed? Sorry bro, but thats beyond ridiculous. Weather you like it or not, you cannot just go around attacking people, especially FEMALE nurses. Sorry, I know you hate name-calling, but hitting a female nurse and going off like that just screams "white-trash douchebag", so if Junie takes some flack for this, it's because he earned it.

Also, there is NOTHING unlawful about what they did to him. If you come into a hospital in America and you are considered a threat to yourself or to others THEY HAVE TO KEEP YOU, and if you try to leave you WILL be arrested. I know this first hand after being taken to the hospital with alcohol poisoning and I was too drunk to even talk. The doctors assumed I was suicidal because we had just buried our best friend, and they MADE me stay overnight until I was sober and back to reality.

I never said our justice system is perfect, but it's better than what you are suggesting by just letting punks like Junie get away with stunts like this with nothing more than a slap on the wrists and a bottle of pills. Also, why would be raising your hand to a customs official? I don't know what happened to you with your camera, but I take pictures with my camera all the time in public places. If somebody says something I tell them to kiss my ass, lol! See, isn't a free country great!



6) I'm not talking about what you can do. I'm talking about your attitude. Can you or I help Junie? probably not. Should we hope he finds help rather then condemn him. ABSOLUTELY...and thats where you and I differ completely isnt it. Anyone would think he murdered someone...ohh but when that happens, the same people are suddenly "innocent til proven guilty...lets wait for the facts"

Whats wrong with my attitude? All I said was that I think the UFC should not be working with people who do crazy stuff like this. I did NOT say Junie, or Rampage, should be condemned, but they DO have to suffer the consequences of their actions. I said that I pray for their souls and you got your high horse and acted like that wasn't good enough. As if I am supposed to start a crusade to help Junie deal with his issues. Gimmie a break man, I am not saying the guy is the worst person on earth or anything. Sometimes I think you over-think about what people are saying to you. Also, who and what are you specifically referring to with the "innocent until proven guilty" comment?

7) We wont have threads that are single cuss words on this forum. Remember where we are. This is NOT sherdog. We can debate like this, and I thank you for it...but as a Moderator, if I see something I think is distasteful and dissapointing. Count on me to call you or anyone else up on it, online, or face to face...I have no shame


As a moderator, that is your own call on what you choose to get mad about and call people to task on. I always try to give a full and intelligent response to any thread I choose to post in, and generally try to limit my use of direct name-calling unless I am constantly provoked or if it is in the interest on comedic value. Everybody knows this is NOT sherdog, and a couple of people calling Junie a jack-ass because he assaulted three nurses is not going to turn this place into sherdog.

So, in closing, relax! Life is too short! Or as they say, take a chill pill, you know I still love you

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  #43  
Old 10-13-2009, 12:19 AM
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1) Do you know, recently, David Cameron, leader of the Opposition took a huge speech at the Conservative Conference. He said that this is now a broken society, and that basically things are shyte, and tough measures need to be taken to bring everything back to okay. The day after the newspapers tore into him being a Liar. They quoted statistics showing how Labour had increased jobs, how crime rates had dropped, how married people stay together longer. On the third day the opinion poll arrived. Regardless of those Statistics the people of England agreed with Cameron.

Now you can say that Rampage and Junie have nothing to do with the degredation of society. You can claim that whilst Junie is suffering, War Machine is reformed, Chris Leban is Reformed, and Anderson Silva is unbeatable. But the fact is that every single issue and failure on the part of society as a whole, particularly the employers, contributes to society slowly breaking down and becoming broken.

It may seem like a little thing...but if every insitution took your attitude then you would soon see so many little things, they would be built up to a huge thing. Each time you fail your common man, you fail your society, and you fail the principles on which America was formed...and America is the only one whose Society is still idealistically intact. DONT become apethetic at cases like Junie Browning...CARE about it.

2) maybe for you. but not for me. Most big insitutions act like perfectly legal Mafia bodies. They have contacts, they can do whatever they want to, if they take a disliking to you. Look at my situation with Saint Paul's Cathedral. I cant apply to any of the 52 Cathedrals whilst certain people are still at Saint Paul's...because everytime I do...they poisen the minds of those people against me...and Obviously the first thing the future Cathedral will do when seeing that I have Saint Paul's on my record, is ask them about me. At that point I get politically assassinated time and time again. I've had it where York were all ready to accept me...and then a phone call later, they dropped me like a hot coal.

Trust me. The UFC could distroy a fighter if they put their mind to it.

3) We dont pay our Doctors directly So where would that happen? the doctors get a fixed salery no matter what drugs they dispense. So it cant happen here unless you go privately, and very few do. Why would you when you pay taxes for a service free at the point of delivery. We've essentially cut those drugs companies out of the loop....and most of the world is more like our system then yours...so really...its America that has that problem alone

4) there are somethings you cant edit JB. If you think that Junie was compus mentus during TUF then more fool you. He was mad as a hatter. besides...doing research on a person doesnt mean watching them once a week on a show, it means watching all the material on them that there is and drawring your conclusion from a range of materials. I am shockingly accurate in this area.

Tell me what you have faced compared to the issues of the young Jens Pulver? Tell me what circumstances you faced that is comparable to a starving diseased ridden child in Africa?

NO JB some people have ISSUES that are faced by less then the majority. Feeling Sad is not Depression, not bloody nearly. Those effected by Depression face Issues that those without will never understand, such is the same with all mental health issues.

You might face similar circumstances, but that doesnt always mean your body will create the same issues. Some soldiers go to war and see their friends killed infront of them and are uneffected. Some see the same situation and come back with Post-Traumatic Stress...that difference isnt something they can control. its not the case that the healthy soldier has "dealt with it" and the other soldier is somehow to blame for his bodies response.

If you dont have Issues, Mental Health Issues...then lucky you. I'm pleased for you and I hope you NEVER get them. But dont pretend you know what people who have been pushed to The Edge feel like...dont pretend you somehow chose not to go that way. You dont chose to be ill....and you will never know the solidarity of character that comes with someone who has been there and OVERCOME. Heck, my Issues are nothing compared to what Jens has faced. I sat their and I listened to him, and I watched him, and I knew in theory what he was talking about...but I wouldnt dream of saying I knew HOW to have done psychologically what he's done. I wouldnt say that I have issues too. Not compared to that. You think me worrying about something at work, is an issue like, dealing with your Father trying to execute you...I mean, forcing the barrels down your throat??

No. Not all people have "Issues"

5) oh I see. So shooting a man dead for stepping onto your property is justified, but pushing a nurse trying to restrain you deserves the death penalty?

Trust me. If you want to start a reform in American Law...you dont start with a push and a shove. You start with those who only get manslaughter for shooting people they are having a verbal argument with. THATS what you start with. Its about Priorities...and no Junie doesnt deserve prison for pushing over a female nurse....and yes the guy who shoots someone because of a verbal dispute. He deserves the death penalty

The only people who have the right to restrain someone is the Police. If the Hospital is worried for the safety of someone or they are a danger, they make break confidentiality and hand over the issue to the Police.

So now your Doctors have the power to effectively Kidnap and hold hostage someone on the grounds of their medical opinion???

6) the point is, if they had had the help, they wouldnt have done the actions, and there would have been no consequences. Of course unlawfulness should be punished...but you remove any nonce of corrperate responsibility. Is it all right for Institutions to creat problems and then leave the sufferer to suddenly accept responsibility solely? NO its outrageous. There were warning signs...and they should have been dealt with.

7) sometimes you would wonder with the way some Patrons chose to treat others, or some of the things that get posted. This place is precious and I'll try my very best to keep it precious

I love this place, and you do everything you can to protect and preserve the things you love
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  #44  
Old 10-13-2009, 03:37 AM
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[QUOTE=Tyburn;73265]
No its because your forefathers made PERFECTLY clear what your role was...oh and incidently your role even in your isolationist Period, was supposed to be about releaving the lands of Tyrany. Have you been to Washington DC? Have you seen some of the Quotes on your memorials from Freedom Plaza? or from the War Memorials?? This has nothing to do with the rest of the world, or how America is viewed...this is about what America is. I sware...I spend my life explaining what Americans should already know...perhaps you cant see it because you havent experienced the lack of it. You dont know how bad things can get because you live in a land of milk and honey already. You cant see your self objectively because you are subjectively inside what you are trying to define.

You telling me about America... Now your starting to be offensive Dave.. You telling me about "how it is" in my country is like a virgin talking about sex on a porn shoot.. and telling the stars "what's it's really like".

Yes I have been to Freedoms Plaza, and DC, toured the White House, been to NY about 8 months after Sept 11... been to the Grand Canyon, been to 42 of the 50 states, lived in the slums of Detroit, been to a catholic mass in NY.

America is based off of "doing it on your own". Everyone needs help sometimes, but you have to be willing to take your first step on your own. Handouts .. aren't worth nothing.


Someone once told me that the Queen likes to take peanut butter and .... well.. no matter.. someone once told me.. I guess that's true huh?
Possibly. HM The Queen is not as stuck up as she appears en-ceremony. Prince Charles and Lord Mountbatton (Her Son and Her Husband) both run food companies that involve jams, and maramaldes, and biscuits...why not peanut butter also??[/b]

The point being, just cause someone "said it's so.." don't Make It So

So that might be applicable for Americans, but for the rest of the world, you are only given what you need...and you have to wait forever to get that...if you get it at all.

Good thing I live in a place I don't have to wait years to see a doctor.


Not Socialism at all. This is Centrism. Socialism your life is not worth anything. The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few

No they don't. If I can help out others.. great.. but if I can't help out the masses, that does not mean I have to help them.

As a country, we give to much to those who don't want to help themselves. I would be more willing to help those that want to work for the help.

Like the welfare mom that keeps on popping out kids.. You want more welfare ... birth control.. You want to be legal in this country... do it right.. You employee illegals, get caught.. MASSIVE fines.


...and in china hundreds will needlessly suffer and die for the good of the collective population.

Willingly they die?? I think not.

Do you know that if I had been taken seriously by the SEVEN medical personnel I saw over the course of 6 months then my Anxiety wouldnt have caused my reactive depression!

well... sounds "almost" like you kept going around and around til you found someone that would tell you what you wanted to hear. That's kinda like self medicating to me.




Of course its the fault of everyone else. I TOLD them I was unwell, but they didnt believe me until a secondary illness cropt up that was undeniable. I never received an apology. They dont care.

I was not taken seriously...it did me untold damage...now rather then one problem, I have two. Junie Browning needs professional medical care...


That's really unfortunate. I guess that the doc's should have been looking at the individual rather than the group. Good thing we do not have that here.


You think Junie Browning has perfect mental Health???

No I don't.. I just don't care.

Sane, stupid, cunning, mental moron, whatever.. he has brought it on himself.


As for being a criminal. People with issues often end up criminals if they dont get the help soon enough.



Help them before they become criminals, its not rocket science!



No, they (criminals) 99% know what they are doing is wrong.. just don't do it. That way I don't have to carry them.. and they can have a better life. Sure there are tragic accidents, but those are the people that shouldn't have a problem making their lives better.

you could say that UFC fighters fight due to "issues".. you think getting punched in the face is "fun"..

Alot do. Checked out the childhoods of some of these men?

So someone should have helped Matt Hughes, Jens, Chuck? Good thing you can enjoy the fruits of their "mental issues".



btw... it's illegal to push a specific religion here.. it's one of our "rights"

No. Its illegal to push a specific religion on people because it was assumed by your founders that they would all be Christian, and have Freedom under GOD to profess that. CONTEXT! some of your interpretations of the Constitution are...so...bizzare [/b]

I do??? I do?? dude..

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That was ratified in 1791...The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776.. not 20 years later the founding fathers realized that freedom to worship was extremely important.

"It has often been seen on the Internet that to find God in the Constitution, all one has to do is read it, and see how often the Framers used the words "God," or "Creator," "Jesus," or "Lord." Except for one notable instance, however, none of these words ever appears in the Constitution, neither the original nor in any of the Amendments. The notable exception is found in the Signatory section, where the date is written thusly: "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". The use of the word "Lord" here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts. This lack of any these words does not mean that the Framers were not spiritual people, any more than the use of the word Lord means that they were. What this lack of these words is expositive of is not a love for or disdain for religion, but the feeling that the new government should not involve itself in matters of religion. In fact, the original Constitution bars any religious test to hold any federal office in the United States.
Thanks to James MacDonald for the idea."

There is no need for a State Church if all are christians,

Socialism again...

and it stops the Church being used as a wrong tool for power or control. Likewise, ANY denomination should have the right to worship freely...you know, Catholics and Protestants...THAT is what the freedom of religion in your country is about if you understand who your founders were...and more importantly where they had come from. This was never about allowing Islam to be equal to Christianity...it was about disabling a form of monarchic rule that would burn Catholics at the stake for not worshiping in the same manner as the Protestants. This is a counter-culture against the zig-zag monarchs of the Reformation. A fact most Americans dont understand.

Now, if you have wrongly interpreted that to mean that all religions are equal and allowed...well...your founders will roll in their graves, because that was NOT Washingtons view...I very much doubt it was Lincolns view either. Later Presidents actually dont count


See above for your history lesson.

[B]
Again...out of context. They mean a denomination of Christianity, when they speak about an establishment of religion.


Sorry if my view offends. I dont mean it personally against you so much, as the fact that this forum has always seemed to me to be about the sort of debates you and I are having now...

Again.. See above.

When you dont adhere to what America is according to its own founders THAT offends me

Learn before you speak.

We are not Sodom...and if I see somewhere standards are slipping. I shall make my complaint public

even if you don't know what you are talking about.. ..well... ok.


bring it on


Again.. see above
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  #45  
Old 10-13-2009, 04:03 AM
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[QUOTE=Tyburn;73315]

DONT become apethetic at cases like Junie Browning...CARE about it.

Well.. in watching TUF.. not that it is an accurate "real show".. in my mind, Goofball Browning was given chance after chance... still acted like a tool... as still is... I refuse to get the other cheek slapped...

Trust me. The UFC could distroy a fighter if they put their mind to it.

So.. if a fighter acts like Junie.. he earns it.


4) there are somethings you cant edit JB. If you think that Junie was compus mentus during TUF then more fool you. He was mad as a hatter. besides...doing research on a person doesnt mean watching them once a week on a show, it means watching all the material on them that there is and drawring your conclusion from a range of materials. I am shockingly accurate in this area.

Maybe you should work on yourself rather than others.. then you would be in better shape to help others..

Tell me what you have faced compared to the issues of the young Jens Pulver? Tell me what circumstances you faced that is comparable to a starving diseased ridden child in Africa?

I was 7 when my mother cut her wrist in front of me and my 4 year old sister... told me that it was my fault...
I was 9 when my mom told me that she was going to give me and my sister up for adoption..
I was 14 living with my great grandmother, and she was sharing her "meals on wheels" food with me, cause I had no where else to go.
I was shot 3 times by a piece of garbage looking for cash, that didn't want to go get a job..
I was 19 and about to get married cause I was told that my girlfriend was knocked up with my kid.
I was 28 when I was arrested for beating up a girl, I get out of jail, and lost my job, car and home.

I sucked ALL that up.. did it on my own.. and came back. So no.. I have little sympathy for poor Junie Browning.. Jens is a great example of taking CRAP.. and making something of it.. own his own.

NO JB some people have ISSUES that are faced by less then the majority. Feeling Sad is not Depression, not bloody nearly. Those effected by Depression face Issues that those without will never understand, such is the same with all mental health issues.

So they should get help.. granted it's tough to see that you need "help".. but some where along the line, you are told...


5) oh I see. So shooting a man dead for stepping onto your property is justified,

If that person has bad intentions on me and mine.. well... yes.

but pushing a nurse trying to restrain you deserves the death penalty?

not the death penalty.. but some time.. sure!
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:13 AM
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Well this thread went down the ol ****ter didn't it?
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  #47  
Old 10-13-2009, 12:24 PM
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OMG! WTF?

Can't let these ultra-verbose people start talking. Totally ruins a good conversation.

haha
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:12 PM
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[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;73342]

1)Yes I have been to Freedoms Plaza, and DC, toured the White House, been to NY about 8 months after Sept 11... been to the Grand Canyon, been to 42 of the 50 states, lived in the slums of Detroit, been to a catholic mass in NY.

America is based off of "doing it on your own". Everyone needs help sometimes, but you have to be willing to take your first step on your own. Handouts .. aren't worth nothing.


2) No they don't. If I can help out others.. great.. but if I can't help out the masses, that does not mean I have to help them.

As a country, we give to much to those who don't want to help themselves. I would be more willing to help those that want to work for the help.


3) Willingly they die?? I think not.

4) well... sounds "almost" like you kept going around and around til you found someone that would tell you what you wanted to hear. That's kinda like self medicating to me.


5) No I don't.. I just don't care.

6) So someone should have helped Matt Hughes, Jens, Chuck? Good thing you can enjoy the fruits of their "mental issues".





7) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That was ratified in 1791...The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776.. not 20 years later the founding fathers realized that freedom to worship was extremely important.

"It has often been seen on the Internet that to find God in the Constitution, all one has to do is read it, and see how often the Framers used the words "God," or "Creator," "Jesus," or "Lord." Except for one notable instance, however, none of these words ever appears in the Constitution, neither the original nor in any of the Amendments. The notable exception is found in the Signatory section, where the date is written thusly: "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". The use of the word "Lord" here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts. This lack of any these words does not mean that the Framers were not spiritual people, any more than the use of the word Lord means that they were. What this lack of these words is expositive of is not a love for or disdain for religion, but the feeling that the new government should not involve itself in matters of religion. In fact, the original Constitution bars any religious test to hold any federal office in the United States.
Thanks to James MacDonald for the idea."

8)There is no need for a State Church if all are christians,

Socialism again...



9) When you dont adhere to what America is according to its own founders THAT offends me

Learn before you speak.


1) thats only half the tale I'm not saying your wrong, I'm saying it was taken into account that a ballence was needed. I'm sorry you been to all those places and didnt get any sense of that

2) its the Christian way, its called Charity. Again, I'm sorry if you fail to understand the need and importance of helpping others en-mass

3) No much about China or Socialism do you?

4) no the symptoms got worse and worse until finally they Forced me onto anti-depressents...which I didnt want to do, but they said there was no other way to help my condition. The symptoms werent noticeable outside of myself until the depression began, which was a reaction to the anxiety that noone discovered until AFTER treatment with anti-depressents.

5) which is the crux of the growing problem in your country. It wont be long before you end up like the rest of the world. then you'll cry for that special thing you have lost

6) I dont know about Chuck and Hughes...but yes, someone should have helpped Jens! Noone should have suffered at the hands of their own Father like that! Lucky that he was able to help himself, because many people having gone through that would not have made it. Jens wasnt the only child in that family. Do some research and find out what happened to some of his siblings and get back to me.

7) Does a Perfect Document need ammending? Those changes made specifically to clarify a pre existing point should be classed as an addition, the rest should never have happened. You dont change a Constitution, you dont Ratify it, you dont Ammend it...that defeats the whole purpose of it being an absolute...you'll end up with common law where each successive Government can undo or re-do anything it didnt like/liked about a previous administration just like that.

8) no. The insitution of a Monarchy. Thats not socialism, I wish you'd stop calling everything you dont like socialist.

9) coming from you
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:20 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;73353]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post

DONT become apethetic at cases like Junie Browning...CARE about it.

Well.. in watching TUF.. not that it is an accurate "real show".. in my mind, Goofball Browning was given chance after chance... still acted like a tool... as still is... I refuse to get the other cheek slapped...

Trust me. The UFC could distroy a fighter if they put their mind to it.

So.. if a fighter acts like Junie.. he earns it.


4) there are somethings you cant edit JB. If you think that Junie was compus mentus during TUF then more fool you. He was mad as a hatter. besides...doing research on a person doesnt mean watching them once a week on a show, it means watching all the material on them that there is and drawring your conclusion from a range of materials. I am shockingly accurate in this area.

Maybe you should work on yourself rather than others.. then you would be in better shape to help others..

Tell me what you have faced compared to the issues of the young Jens Pulver? Tell me what circumstances you faced that is comparable to a starving diseased ridden child in Africa?

I was 7 when my mother cut her wrist in front of me and my 4 year old sister... told me that it was my fault...
I was 9 when my mom told me that she was going to give me and my sister up for adoption..
I was 14 living with my great grandmother, and she was sharing her "meals on wheels" food with me, cause I had no where else to go.
I was shot 3 times by a piece of garbage looking for cash, that didn't want to go get a job..
I was 19 and about to get married cause I was told that my girlfriend was knocked up with my kid.
I was 28 when I was arrested for beating up a girl, I get out of jail, and lost my job, car and home.

I sucked ALL that up.. did it on my own.. and came back. So no.. I have little sympathy for poor Junie Browning.. Jens is a great example of taking CRAP.. and making something of it.. own his own.

NO JB some people have ISSUES that are faced by less then the majority. Feeling Sad is not Depression, not bloody nearly. Those effected by Depression face Issues that those without will never understand, such is the same with all mental health issues.

So they should get help.. granted it's tough to see that you need "help".. but some where along the line, you are told...


5) oh I see. So shooting a man dead for stepping onto your property is justified,

If that person has bad intentions on me and mine.. well... yes.

but pushing a nurse trying to restrain you deserves the death penalty?

not the death penalty.. but some time.. sure!
You know. I could reply to you. But I was talking to JB. I'm sorry you had a shyte childhood. Must have been difficult for you, but Jens came out of it with a wish to help others who have been in similar situations...and you came out not caring.

I know who I have the greater respect for. Your hostility, and your bizzare claims to remove GOD from America poisens the very basis of a Nations whose aspirations are the very pinnicle of GODly politics...and all you do is prove my point, that the American Society is slowly becoming nothing more then the secularism and brokeness that is rife outside of its current soverignty.

Try and understand, from my point of view, you have displayed everything counter to what I believe Americanis to be all about, in large showing that my assertions are indeed correct, not only about what America should be, but now, about what it is becoming.

I dont like it. I would rather be left in my hopeful Idealistic bubble, then meet Americans online like you, who prove me unfortunately correct.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:34 PM
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J.B. J.B. is offline
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Dave, Junie is said to have "bipolar disorder" and "depression" from his "dysfunctional upbringing". Forgive me for being a skeptic, but bipolar disorder is probably the most misdiagnosed thing in the mental health industry, and YES, it IS an industry. Having a crappy childhood sucks, but it's not an excuse to commit crimes. You might not believe this, but a lot of people have way crappier lives than Junie Browning and they DON'T act like an ass and assault women nurses. YES, ALL people have issues, regardless if you believe it or not. We can agree to disagree on the mental health topic, it's something we have debated in the past in relation to other various threads. My opinion has been clearly stated and I stand by it. I HONESTLY agree with MOST of what you have said on the issue, there are just a few slight differences of opinion on how we perceive "issues". So, I will leave that one to rest.

However, I will touch on a couple other things you said in your last response...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
oh I see. So shooting a man dead for stepping onto your property is justified, but pushing a nurse trying to restrain you deserves the death penalty?

Trust me. If you want to start a reform in American Law...you dont start with a push and a shove. You start with those who only get manslaughter for shooting people they are having a verbal argument with. THATS what you start with. Its about Priorities...and no Junie doesnt deserve prison for pushing over a female nurse....and yes the guy who shoots someone because of a verbal dispute. He deserves the death penalty

The only people who have the right to restrain someone is the Police. If the Hospital is worried for the safety of someone or they are a danger, they make break confidentiality and hand over the issue to the Police.

So now your Doctors have the power to effectively Kidnap and hold hostage someone on the grounds of their medical opinion???
Now, when did I say Junie needed to get the death penalty? This is where you takes things to the extreme. It's a debate tactic that is childish and used solely for shock value. It brings nothing of merit to the discussion.

Why does everything have to so big and over the top when you talk about America? Why does me suggesting that Junie should be punished for his crimes have to turn into a lecture on how Dave would reform the US justice system?

Clearly you don't know the difference between jail and prison, as I will assume you have not been to either. I never said he should do HARD time for this specific crime, a lot of people get sentenced to a short time in jail for smaller crimes. Sometimes even as short as week or two in the county lock up, not state or federal prison. However, I also don't personally know Junie's criminal history, and if he has a long list of crimes in his past a judge will be looking at that and taking it into consideration.

Also, be careful when you start throwing around blanket ideas of who deserves the death penalty, especially when you say that you feel society is partially to blame when a person who "needs help" does not get it and then they commit a crime. I think it's fair to say that a person who goes out and rapes and murders children is in need of some mental help, but guess what...I don't care because they rape and murder children. Just kill them and be done with it, the crazy person is better off, and so is the rest of the world. However, it's not unheard of for two men to get into a serious argument and somebody ends up getting killed, that is called a "crime of passion". While it is still very WRONG, it is not nearly as bad as killing and raping children and then getting to live in a state hospital and take happy pills all day long because the state don't kill "crazy" people.

I know the US system is not perfect, but if you can find me one that is I will applaud you. There may be times when I feel it fails, or true justice slips through the cracks, but it is still OUR system and I wouldn't wanna be anywhere else. [cues God Bless America ]
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