Public school 101

Unions started out with a good legit purpose, but now they seem like just another arm of the Democrat party!

[NateR]

Originally Posted by logrus

I have a very different opinion about unions in general. I know for a fact the Construction Unions are a joke whos only real concern is collecting their quarterly checks from other workers. Any real saftey concerns you have they dont care. So your stuck working with drunks, crack heads and guys who smoke weed in the **** house. MEanwhile I am sitting at home with a broken hand, and the union ain't backing me up when the company was being a douche bag about my workmans comp.

I won't even go into the number of guys who got hurt on the job and tested for high amount of illegal drugs. Only that they were allowed to keep their jobs.

Its a shadey business with the only thing mattering in the end are, # of members, and $$$ every 3 months from those members.

An all the cops I know and train with say "**** the unions" and "**** the ticket quota"

Exactly, there are many local businesses around here who have gone under because of unions. The unions make so many demands that they force people out of healthcare and out of jobs.

Americans have simply priced themselves out of work, which is one of the primary reasons that companies are moving overseas. Why pay one worker $20 an hour with full benefits, healthcare, vacation time, etc., when you can open up a factory in South America and pay 100 workers $0.10 an hour with zero benefits or healthcare? It's pretty basic math.

[Bonnie]

What a great post! Mac, you're really rock'n with your "letter to the editor" post and this post.

My first thought was the same as Chris', if everyone is only going to end up "equaled or averaged" to everybody else, what's the point in striving to be better, smarter, more creative, etc.. What's the incentive? NONE!

As far as unions, they've done good, yes, but they've also harmed themselves and most importantly the workers greatly by not being more flexible and commonsensical to the economy. You can follow the breadcrumbs of today back to the loaf.... Life is about change and you have to be willing to reinvent yourself (in this case unions) or go the way of the dinosaurs.

Originally Posted by NateR

Exactly, there are many local businesses around here who have gone under because of unions. The unions make so many demands that they force people out of healthcare and out of jobs.

Can you name any of these businesses and provide data showing it was because of unions that they went out of business?

Americans have simply priced themselves out of work, which is one of the primary reasons that companies are moving overseas. Why pay one worker $20 an hour with full benefits, healthcare, vacation time, etc., when you can open up a factory in South America and pay 100 workers $0.10 an hour with zero benefits or healthcare? It's pretty basic math.

Yeah, let's send jobs overseas and/or out of country where there are no child labor laws and exploit these folks because it's the American thing to do. Rather than pair a fair wage, union or not, let's keep giving these executives enormous bonuses and golden parachutes for doing next to nothing while the hourly workers can barely make ends meet and are not able to afford health insurance.

What do you have against American workers who want a living wage for the work that they do?

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Can you name any of these businesses and provide data showing it was because of unions that they went out of business?

I just have the story of someone who had worked in the area for years. There was a store was in Greenville, IL and, before the union moved in, they were providing good benefits and healthcare for all employees, even the part-time employees. Once the workers unionized, the part-time employees lost all of their healthcare benefits. The union began demanding more and more benefits and pay for their workers, until the store eventually just went belly-up and closed it's doors forever. Thus, a few greedy workers who believed that they were "entitled to" certain benefits, put everyone out of a job.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Yeah, let's send jobs overseas and/or out of country where there are no child labor laws and exploit these folks because it's the American thing to do. Rather than pair a fair wage, union or not, let's keep giving these executives enormous bonuses and golden parachutes for doing next to nothing while the hourly workers can barely make ends meet and are not able to afford health insurance.

I didn't say that moving jobs overseas is the right thing to do, but for profit-minded executives can you really blame them?

Originally Posted by Buzzard

What do you have against American workers who want a living wage for the work that they do?

Nothing, but what is required for survival is much less than what many people believe they are entitled to.

An example, in 1949, someone who worked minimum wage over the summer would have earned enough money to afford these items from the 1949 Sears catalog:
1. Smith-Corona typewriter
2. Argus 21 35mm camera
3. Silvertone AM-FM table radio
4. Silvertone 3-speed phonograph

In 2009, the same person working the same hours at our current minimum wage would be able to afford these items and more:
1. Dell laptop computer
2. HP color inkjet printer/scanner/copier
3. Canon 8 megapixel digital camera
4. portable GPS system
5. 32" LCD HDTV
6. 8GB iPod Nano
7. GE microwave
8. Haier refrigerator/freezer
9. Toshiba DVD/VCR combo
10. RCA home theater system
11. Uniden cordless phone
12. RCA AM/FM radio
13. Camcorder
14. Sony Playstation 2

A minimum wage worker in America is still one of the wealthiest people in the world.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/03/...s-are-now.html

So the problem is not that wages in America are too low, the problem is people living outside their means and believing that they are entitled to things they cannot afford.

[Neezar]

Exactly, there are many local businesses around here who have gone under because of unions. The unions make so many demands that they force people out of healthcare and out of jobs.

Can you name any of these businesses and provide data showing it was because of unions that they went out of business?

There is a steel mill in SC that shut it's doors because union workers refused to cut their hours to 32 a week and take a cut in pay ($3.65 an hour cut).


Hundreds of people get laid off and lose their jobs due to the Union.

http://newsblog.projo.com/2009/09/carcieri-says-l.html

Update: R.I. governor says state employees' layoffs next

5:22 PM Thu, Sep 03, 2009 | Permalink
Cynthia Needham Email


Governor Carcieri sharply criticized Supreme Court Justice Maureen McKenna Goldberg's decision earlier Thursday to block the first scheduled shutdown of Rhode Island state government on Friday, and announced that he will move forward with layoffs.

The justice, he wrote, "has left me with no option but layoffs. I have asked my department directors to identify the last 1,000 people hired and begin the process of layoff notifications."

"It should greatly disturb every state employee and every Rhode Islander that labor leaders are willing to sacrifice people's jobs so they can maintain their stranglehold on the citizens of this state."

Union leaders could not immediately be reached for comment on the announcement.

In his statement, the governor went on to say:

"This decision by Justice McKenna Goldberg may just be the straw that broke the camel's back, sending this state down the path to financial ruin, as it gives greater weight to union and special interest demands rather than the fiscal reality of the state and the employment of state workers. Preventing the state from moving forward with the shutdown days cripples our ability to address growing budget gaps, and stops the executive branch from fulfilling its constitutional duty to balance the state's budget."
Extra: A copy of the Justice Goldberg's decision

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories...storyID=788050

Unions to bear brunt of cuts

Governor says that since management/confidential workers are sacrificing pay raise, they will be spared layoffs

By JAMES M. ODATO, Capitol bureau

First published in print: Wednesday, April 8, 2009


ALBANY — Gov. David Paterson continued to flex his muscle with labor unions Tuesday, releasing a letter that says he is exempting nonunion employees from planned layoffs because they are sacrificing the same pay raises that union workers refuse to give up.

Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=788050#ixzz0SH4xQ6Uv



Paterson reduced his layoff target by 200 to 8,700 because "management/confidential" employees — managers and secretaries who are not in unions — will be denied the 3 percent pay raises union employees will get under contractual agreements. Paterson used his power to rescind the raises for about 11,000 management/confidential workers.

The governor also revealed a list of the proposed cuts, ranging from 2,021 at Corrections to zero at his executive chamber. Other big hits targeted; 1,434 at the Office of Mental Retardation; 1,054 at Mental Health; 386 at State Police; 366 at Health; 317 at Taxation & Finance; and 245 at Children and Family Services; 100 at General Services.
As a result of killing the raises to the management/confidential employees, the state will save $32 million over two years, and Paterson won't have to reach the 8,900-layoff target he previously set.


Civil Service Employees Association President Danny Donohue said Paterson's actions are outrageous. "What Governor Paterson is saying is that the highest-paid personnel will not be included as part of his cost-cutting moves. He is also saying that the brunt of his reductions will be on the lower paid employees who actually do the work of the state every day."

Some labor officials say it is not possible to bypass nonunion employees to lay off union people in the same title with more seniority. For instance many workers at Civil Service are management/confidential because they handle confidential information but they may have the same title as union people in the same agency.

"People still want their raises," said Barbara Zaron, president of the Organization of Management Confidential Employees. She said a lot of people feel let down by Paterson, who had suggested in previous communications that all workers would be getting raises this month.

"We are in discussions with the (Division of the) Budget and governor's office about some potential alternatives," Zaron said. "We're hopeful that maybe we can get the raises reinstated if we can get the saving from other means."

Paterson released a letter to all state employees about the situation, emphasizing that unions refused "modest concessions" — giving up the raises and lagging paychecks — to share in sacrifices others are making.

"Regrettably, however, our state's public employee unions refused to consider concessions at all," Paterson wrote. "I was left with no alternative but to implement a work force reduction plan." He said he directed all state agency heads to implement their reductions by July 1. "We cannot eliminate our state's deficit without layoffs," he said.

(There is more. You really should read it. )


Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=788050#ixzz0SH5HbrQK

There is the deal with Eastern Airlines. The local government in California is facing the same deal.
I could keep going. This is happening everywhere.

Originally Posted by NateR

Whether it's a true story or not, it's a great illustration of why Socialism will ALWAYS fail.

that's false. socialism may not always work but to say it will "ALWAYS fail" is wrong.

china is a good example of a socialist country that has been thriving successfully for many years. it has the third largest economy in the world, which is also one of the fastest growing economies in the world, it has the world's largest army and the world's second largest defense budget (second only to america) and it is also the world's second largest exporter. china is not a failure it is far from it, in fact its economy and technology advancement is THRIVING and has been for many years, and in a decade or so their technological advancement is predicted to be #1 in the world. i'm not saying everything about china is good (of course every country has it's downsides) i am just proving that socialism has been proven (not often, but HAS been proven) to indeed work.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Responses in red. Try working in an "at will" state where you can be fired for just about any reason. I know many folks who have been fired right about when they were going to be vested and lost everything because they had no union protection.


You need to hire an attorney for workmans comp issues and not rely on the union as they have no control over that. My union provides an EAP program in conjunction with my employer.


Did the workers comp insurance carriers know about the positive test results? How do you know they were tested and that they tested positive? If the company allows so many employees who test positive to keep their jobs, they would have a hard time keeping a workers comp insurance carrier. Are you sure your employer has workers comp insurance? A unions job isn't to get rid of employees, but to protect them from the employer.

I agree with Chuck 100%.

So are you alleging that the police union has a ticket quota? If you don't like your union, why do you stay? Why not get another construction job without a union?

1. How about collecting your settlement from a company and getting fired a day later or how about watching a third year who never showed up for work get sent to a new job site while I got sent back home even though I was there everyday early and one of the last ones to leave the job site.

2. At the time my dad was working out of town so I couldn't get a hold of him. So I contacted my union hall to actually look for the right route to take. They wouldn't help me in the slightest bit, I pay them and so do the companies. When my Dad finally got a chance he gave me the # for our lawyer, and the next day he settled it.

3. I drove them to the hospital, watched them fill out sheets stating it was an on the job incident. I also had the guy ask me to piss the test for him. So the company knew and the insurance company knew. The last 3 I was involved in was one guy shot his foot to the deck, another guy fell from a ladder and the third guy got a piece of broken trim nail in his eye.
The Union halls knew cause they worked it out for the guys to keep their jobs.

I don't belong to the Union anymore. I quit paying my money so I was kicked out. The way I see it is if your not going to protect my health or interests. If your not going to help me locate a job then what purpose in the grand scheme of things do they serve.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by que

that's false. socialism may not always work but to say it will "ALWAYS fail" is wrong.

china is a good example of a socialist country that has been thriving successfully for many years. it has the third largest economy in the world, which is also one of the fastest growing economies in the world, it has the world's largest army and the world's second largest defense budget (second only to america) and it is also the world's second largest exporter. china is not a failure it is far from it, in fact its economy and technology advancement is THRIVING and has been for many years, and in a decade or so their technological advancement is predicted to be #1 in the world. i'm not saying everything about china is good (of course every country has it's downsides) i am just proving that socialism has been proven (not often, but HAS been proven) to indeed work.

Wow, I never thought that someone would actually use China as an example of a "success story" that America should try to emulate.

Anyways, it's only a "success" because they have been adopting capitalist business practices. Which they have only done because the socialist business practices...... get this...... FAILED!

Also, in terms of human rights, I don't think "success" and "China" even belong in the same sentence. Without basic human freedoms, all the money and technological advancement in the world is meaningless.

Sorry, your argument is invalid, try again.

Originally Posted by logrus

1. How about collecting your settlement from a company and getting fired a day later or how about watching a third year who never showed up for work get sent to a new job site while I got sent back home even though I was there everyday early and one of the last ones to leave the job site.

2. At the time my dad was working out of town so I couldn't get a hold of him. So I contacted my union hall to actually look for the right route to take. They wouldn't help me in the slightest bit, I pay them and so do the companies. When my Dad finally got a chance he gave me the # for our lawyer, and the next day he settled it.

3. I drove them to the hospital, watched them fill out sheets stating it was an on the job incident. I also had the guy ask me to piss the test for him. So the company knew and the insurance company knew. The last 3 I was involved in was one guy shot his foot to the deck, another guy fell from a ladder and the third guy got a piece of broken trim nail in his eye.
The Union halls knew cause they worked it out for the guys to keep their jobs.

I don't belong to the Union anymore. I quit paying my money so I was kicked out. The way I see it is if your not going to protect my health or interests. If your not going to help me locate a job then what purpose in the grand scheme of things do they serve.

Sorry that you had those bad experiences. There are many things that I don't agree with about my union and many things that I support. I've never needed the union to bail me out of trouble that I brought upon myself. I have a good rapport with most of the management there and have needed the union in a few instances.

It's late now so I will address the other replies later on. I hope all worked out for you and that your hand healed properly.