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  #21  
Old 09-01-2009, 04:32 PM
Crisco
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
Does the Government tell you what to spend you're money on?

No.

Not entirely true David. The government forces us to buy many things. Insurance on certain things being one of them.

So what right do you have to tell the Government what to do with there money?

Bull**** David. It is not the governments money. IT IS MY MONEY. Taxes belong to the people and are distributed by the government.

Is it your Government that demands a Urine Sample...or your employers...I'd say your employers...so WTF does you passing a Urine test for your employers to pay you...got to do with what the Government does with the money you pay to them???

Why should a government institution supplement income to a person who actively participates in drug use? There by commiting a crime and supplying drug dealers with further capital to expand their enterprise and do more harm.

Nothing. Nothing at all. Its not the Governments fault you have to pee to appease your employer.

The employers wants to ensure you do not participate in illicit activities that may effect your work. If a person is a drug addict they are far less likely to succeed in the work place as the addiction to drugs is quite distracting. The object of welfare is to help you get on your feet not keep you stoned on "soma" for the rest of your life while you lay on your couch. THAT is big brother.


You pay them, they do whatever they like with it...just like you do whatever you like with the money paid to you.

Remember...your Government has rights too. Mind your own business
This is exactly the reason why your country is going to be muslim in 40 years. The brits are damn busy sucking the government teet and walking by. Please David you insult your government whenever you can. It's completely inept and detached from reality. Their leading your country right to Sharia and it's all because everyone is "minding their own business"

and don't think I'm being mean because you decided to condescend first my friend.

Oh and God bless America
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  #22  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:27 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisco
Oh and God bless America
I dont aggree with the medical insurance thing they force you into...but I am right in assuming you'd rather pay that, then have a National Health Service...car inusrance and the likes I can understand

...Oh and...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LSarhZpnMs
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  #23  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:49 PM
Crisco
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
I dont aggree with the medical insurance thing they force you into...but I am right in assuming you'd rather pay that, then have a National Health Service...car inusrance and the likes I can understand

...Oh and...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LSarhZpnMs
there was a lot more in htta post I neglected to put in red sorry. just do a quick read through.
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  #24  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:35 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisco
there was a lot more in htta post I neglected to put in red sorry. just do a quick read through.
oh...okay...sorry I missed that

1) Tell me Crisco. When you get your pay check, whose money is it? When you spend your pay check, is it still your employers money you are spending? If you blew all your pay check on the lottery...would it disgrace your employer?

Taxes are the way a Government funds itself. Consider, that the land you live on by definition of it being in a certain Geography does not actually belong fully to you, even if you own the deed. Taxes are composed of two types. The first is Income Tax. Consider this pretty much a rent to your government for allowing you to live and work on their land. The second is Amenity Tax. This is actually subcontraction, you pay your government to deliver certain things...perhaps to take away your rubish, or to provide you with Emergency Services.

IF you dont pay taxes, the Government have the right to either detain you, or evict you. If you dont pay amenities, then they do not have to provide any services for you.

The Government is NOT just a Hive Mind. The Government is not just the Citizenry. Its actually as much an insitution as an Employer...and like in a company, you can buy shares, and thus have an influence...so it is basically that because you are an of age American Citizen you have shares in the Government....this does not mean you, singularly, own the Government, it doesnt mean the Government must conform to your every wish. It means on key ellements, you are one voice in many that may advise, and the Government must go with the majority or face collapse when its shareholders all pull out (A revolution)

2) The Government should not. BUT, is it not the Governments choice and duty to allocate funds? Do you get a vote on how the Government Distributes funds? if you do, then you have a right to be sorely dissapointed. But if you do not, then the bussiness transaction between one person and another, is their concern...and IF there is corruption, then document proof and take it to the judiciary.

IF you can PROOVE in a Criminal Court that your Government is funding Crime, then you will have the rights to impeach the President, and to abolish and re-instate a new Congress. However...as your Declaration of Independance says...major Governments, should not be disposed of upon a whim. You need to start collecting evidence of maltreatment, that is getting worse, in many areas, over a long period of time.

Can you proove what you claim, is there proof that the government is knowlingly, deliberatley, actively, supporting Druggies? If there is and you care, then you have a duty to do far more then talk about it.

3) What benefit to the Government, is there for keeping and supporting long term people? Its a drain on resources surely that they wouldnt want to encourage.

Our Employers never dare to pry like that with urine samples. I would be most offended if I went into work tommorow, and my boss said I had to give a sample to work. In England, its simple, they pay you to work...if you are a druggie and you cant work...they stop paying you and lay you off. I'd also show up positive, for Sertraline Hydrochloride They did ask if I was on meds when I started, but the information got stored, and now everyone always seems suprised when they discover im on anti-depressents

4) We differ on what a Government is supposed to be. Our Government is ellected TO LEAD AND PROVIDE. That is the Governments duty. We Ellect them to do what they do

Let me ask you a serious question. Which President has ever been removed by Public Opinion alone? Which Senator has been cast out on the grounds of nothing more then Public Opinion? Because in England, Public Opinion can KILL Politicians.

If a person in Government does something wrong...we shout about it...We SCREAM about it...we make it impossible for them to continue in their post, and we are damn good at that. We Removed Maggie Thatcher, We Removed Tony Blair...BOTH WITHOUT A GENERAL ELLECTION.

You watch heads roll in the coming week in Scotland and Westminster because of this Libya thing. Do you really think the Public are going to stand by and do nothing? The Papers are FULL of it. When Gordon Brown refused to comment, the Paper Revealed front page, all the things he did comment on. They published that he couldnt speak about the Bombers release...but he found time to congratulate some sportsman on a win of some sort. FRONT PAGE Headlines. We force their own parties to recognise that a future in the face of such public opinion is untennable, and sooner or later, the inevitable comes...

Like it did for Speaker Martin VERY Recently, when The Commons said he could resign, or face a vote of no confidence. A vote of No Confidence is a mutiny and done when someone has become unfit for duty.

Hear me well when I say, play it all in the light....Institutions do not expect you to go out and talk about things they consider private. If they wrong you, and you say nothing, they get away with it. But if they wrong you and you tell EVERYONE...

Said the Lord Bishop of London when he was told that British Airways had suspended an employee for refusal to remove her cross... "I hope they dont ask me to remove my pectoral cross when I fly with them"

Ironically, British Airways had a sudden change of heart not so long after that. So FAR from being unable. The British Public and Media can reduce the Government to nothing...Like...when they changed their minds about funding those War Vetrans visit to Normandy. We didnt need to Vote. We just went global with our dirty laundry...and suddenly it came out clean as a whistle
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  #25  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:36 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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please note. I'm not angry at you. I think so long as we stay rational and unemotional, we can have good discussions on these sorts of topics. This to me is one of the biggest differences between our two cultures...the way we view "Government" what it is, what it does etc
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  #26  
Old 09-01-2009, 10:39 PM
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So you deny people who have struggles with Drugs the right to eat? The right for shelter?

If you leave it like this won't you force desperate Druggies to go out and commit henious crimes against innocent victims to fund their addictions and hunger.

The real issue is with the system, welfare or benefits, it needs overhauling, maybe ones welfare decreases regularly each week you fail to find work, or screw up or miss interviews etc etc

So eventually if is Wendys that needs employment, they have to take it. Although on the flipside, those people there need to encourage suitable jobs and offer practical help.

I can tell you all about the miseries of British Welfare system but it would bore ya'll!

Point is, there is no easy answer.
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  #27  
Old 09-02-2009, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonlion
So you deny people who have struggles with Drugs the right to eat? The right for shelter?

If you leave it like this won't you force desperate Druggies to go out and commit henious crimes against innocent victims to fund their addictions and hunger.

The real issue is with the system, welfare or benefits, it needs overhauling, maybe ones welfare decreases regularly each week you fail to find work, or screw up or miss interviews etc etc

So eventually if is Wendys that needs employment, they have to take it. Although on the flipside, those people there need to encourage suitable jobs and offer practical help.

I can tell you all about the miseries of British Welfare system but it would bore ya'll!

Point is, there is no easy answer.
I agree with 99% of your post...

However I don't believe that shelter or food is a right...
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2009, 04:52 AM
Moose
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Originally Posted by Crisco
2) Those things are not illegal. Your smarter then that.

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  #29  
Old 09-02-2009, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck
I would be all for it. But I also think women on welfare should be forced to get a BC injection or cap their benefits with the current number of children they have.
You said the words right outta my mouth!! Unfortunately many people use welfare as a way of life not for temporary assistance like it was made for...
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  #30  
Old 09-02-2009, 01:35 PM
Crisco
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Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
You said the words right outta my mouth!! Unfortunately many people use welfare as a way of life not for temporary assistance like it was made for...
exactly. and using tax money to support their drug habit doesn't help anyone not even themselves.
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