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  #11  
Old 08-09-2009, 05:34 PM
Chuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERStettin
I honestly think I saw the two best pound for pound fighters in the world at UFC 101 in BJ Penn and Anderson Silva. I say this knowing BJ would still need to beat a couple people to really clean out his division (Sanchez, Guida, Diaz) and Anderson Silva has already cleaned house on the 185 lbers and is now on his way to doing the same with the light heavyweights after embarrassing a recent champ in Forrest Griffin (spelling?). I NEVER thought I would see a guy like Forrest get humiliated like that.

BJ came to the fight in shape. I have never seen him look like that, even when he started, he was in shape but never had so much muscle. He fought a great fight against Kenny, who is clearly the top contender in the LW division and BJ made it look easy in beating him.

Silva is just from another planet. I don't see anyone beating this guy. He is dominating the way Royce Gracie did in the beginning of the UFC days and nobody seems to have an answer for him.

So, where do you put these guys on all time status? I don't see either of them losing anytime soon and they are, in my opinion, the two best pound for pound fighters out there (Sorry GSP, but you stay in your weight class).

My all time list would include Matt Hughes, BJ Penn, Royce Gracie, Chuck Liddell and Anderson Silva. Not in any particular order either. I know Royce was the first to really dominate the sport, the others have done the same in their time as well.
With the exception of just being a hater keeping GSP off the list...ANY list of P4P is just silly.

He beat Matt twice... He beat Penn twice.... actually beat Penn once and completely destroyed him once...

How do you explain him not being on your list?
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  #12  
Old 08-09-2009, 06:27 PM
StizzoFoShizzo
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Don't get me wrong, Anderson was on another level last night, but for some reason the way it ended, it just left a bad taste in my mouth. Sure he knocked out a former champ and argueably one of the toughest competitors in the LHW division, but the way it all went down just left a lot more to be desired I think. How in the hell does Forrest get a fight of the night bonus is beyond me. I guess it could be beceause the rest ofthe card was lackluster to say the least. Silva may have deserved KO of the night, but I think kenflo and Bj deserved a fight of the night bonus more than Forrest did. Yes BJ is top dog at LW, and he looked phenominal last night. That pool jumping thing must have really helped his game lol
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2009, 06:47 PM
pistol-pete
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Originally Posted by Josh
Edgar or maynard are the only tests for BJ IMO and Edgar the only real test. I think he has the best skills set besides BJ but he would still lose.
Maynard kinda beat the crap out of Edgar if I remember correctly, but I will agree with you that match ups make fights, but Maynard has the wrestling and ground control to take the fight to Penn, but unless you are GSP taking down Penn is quite difficult.

You gotta be able to strike with Penn, or at least when the battle on the feet by pressuring him against the fence, dirty boxing, and winning the clinch game. Wear him out and then work him on the ground. The problem is, what lightweight has the ability to do that? Diaz, Maynard, and Tyson Griffith. Big LWs with good wrestling, and good camps.
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2009, 07:04 PM
Max
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistol-pete
Maynard kinda beat the crap out of Edgar if I remember correctly, but I will agree with you that match ups make fights, but Maynard has the wrestling and ground control to take the fight to Penn, but unless you are GSP taking down Penn is quite difficult.

You gotta be able to strike with Penn, or at least when the battle on the feet by pressuring him against the fence, dirty boxing, and winning the clinch game. Wear him out and then work him on the ground. The problem is, what lightweight has the ability to do that? Diaz, Maynard, and Tyson Griffith. Big LWs with good wrestling, and good camps.
Nate Diaz does not have that good of wrestling.
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  #15  
Old 08-09-2009, 07:18 PM
atomdanger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
With the exception of just being a hater keeping GSP off the list...ANY list of P4P is just silly.

He beat Matt twice... He beat Penn twice.... actually beat Penn once and completely destroyed him once...

How do you explain him not being on your list?
Well, Matt his a WW, and so is GSP, so although impressive,
they are the same size, and same weight class.

BJ, is a LW, who was moving up to challenge himself,
fighting smaller guys doesn't do much for your p4p status.
Now if GSP started beating MW's, it sure would help.
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  #16  
Old 08-09-2009, 08:20 PM
Chuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomdanger
Well, Matt his a WW, and so is GSP, so although impressive,
they are the same size, and same weight class.

BJ, is a LW, who was moving up to challenge himself,
fighting smaller guys doesn't do much for your p4p status.
Now if GSP started beating MW's, it sure would help.
I understand your point and I think it's valid to a degree... but I have a hard time accepting that a fighter who has fought in multiple weight classes deserves much more credit then a fighter who hasn't.

Or maybe I'm trying to say a fighter who choses not to switch weight classes shouldn't be thought less of?

Either way... same thing.

If that were to be taken into consideration with the OP's post I quoted then shouldn't Chuck and Matt be off the list as well? To the best of my knowledge they stayed in their weight classes so if they were to be on the list then surely GSP belongs on there as well.

My thoughts anyway....

P4P lists are extremely subjective and virtually useless IMO anyway... are we talking current? All time? Do we factor in quality of opponents? How often they fight? Etc... too much speculation and fighter math in a P4P list for it to mean much to me.
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  #17  
Old 08-09-2009, 08:46 PM
atomdanger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
I understand your point and I think it's valid to a degree... but I have a hard time accepting that a fighter who has fought in multiple weight classes deserves much more credit then a fighter who hasn't.

Or maybe I'm trying to say a fighter who choses not to switch weight classes shouldn't be thought less of?

Either way... same thing.

If that were to be taken into consideration with the OP's post I quoted then shouldn't Chuck and Matt be off the list as well? To the best of my knowledge they stayed in their weight classes so if they were to be on the list then surely GSP belongs on there as well.

My thoughts anyway....

P4P lists are extremely subjective and virtually useless IMO anyway... are we talking current? All time? Do we factor in quality of opponents? How often they fight? Etc... too much speculation and fighter math in a P4P list for it to mean much to me.
I guess for me, proving you can take on bigger guys means a lot.
p4p lists are completely useless, and only matter in fan conversation.

I mean, its impossible to say if a guy like GSP would beat a guy like Machida if they were the same size, or any other crazy matchup you know?
Although damn, AS sure shut me up last night saying he didn't deserve to be mentioned.
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  #18  
Old 08-09-2009, 09:34 PM
pistol-pete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
Nate Diaz does not have that good of wrestling.

I meant Diego. Diaz has horrible wrestling, he got dominated in his last two fights because he couldn't stop takedowns.
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2009, 09:53 PM
Josh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistol-pete
Maynard kinda beat the crap out of Edgar if I remember correctly, but I will agree with you that match ups make fights, but Maynard has the wrestling and ground control to take the fight to Penn, but unless you are GSP taking down Penn is quite difficult.

You gotta be able to strike with Penn, or at least when the battle on the feet by pressuring him against the fence, dirty boxing, and winning the clinch game. Wear him out and then work him on the ground. The problem is, what lightweight has the ability to do that? Diaz, Maynard, and Tyson Griffith. Big LWs with good wrestling, and good camps.
Man I disagree with you completely. Who cares if Maynard beat the crap out of Edgar? Maynard is really good but Edgar has great takedowns also and his standup is much better. If Maynard got on top of Penn he would get subbed plain and simple. He has power but that would do him no good.
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2009, 10:14 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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I think that In terms of Pure Skill its a toss up between Fedor and BJ Penn. I think in terms of the best fighters who combine effort with skill its probably Anderson Silva...people say GSP but he has been known to take short cuts...people also say Machida, but thats only because of his record. GSP needs to tighten his game without any accusations of aid or any miscelanious training accidents that benefit his career, As harsh as it sounds, Machida will only be thought of in this category until he has a loss.

You know...I much perfer watching Penn on the ground then standing. I'm well aware he can box, but he's not so pleasent to watch standing...he's FAR better to watch on the ground. I was, to be honnest getting a bit dissapointed by his match until the forth round. Thats not a slight on him, its just an expectation I hadbased on his past and my preference.

In the end he performed well. I dont like him, and long for the day someone smacks him bad...but I have to admit, he is fascinating to watch His major con is that he must solidify his legacy which has been hampered by jumping around weight classes, and his effort level is occasionally questioned

Anderson Silva has two major cons, at the moment He is pissing off the institution. He is still charging ahead with this boxing match idea, and Dana White overrulled him in the post fight press conference to say he would if the need arose force a match to unify Middle weight and Light Heavy...something that Silva doesnt want because of lyoto. He is also incapable of being the aggressor, he plays it safe, he puts on boring matches in those instances, and he will end the same way as Tim Sylvia did if he doesnt at least try and show the initiative and engage with others who dont charge like a bull in a china shop.

Fedors only con is people say he doesnt fight the best. Well...of course not, being that he IS the best
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