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  #21  
Old 08-03-2009, 08:13 AM
KENTUCKYREDBONE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorlion
thats exactly why I suggested Wing Chun, but Judo is god for that as well, as is aikido.
I seen a fight Quest video on Wing Chun! I must confess that I found the experts impressive!
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  #22  
Old 08-03-2009, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KENTUCKYREDBONE
I seen a fight Quest video on Wing Chun! I must confess that I found the experts impressive!
It was invented by a nun, to stop being attacked by highwaymen. so its all about counterbalance, so you can fight of far bigger and stronger adversaries
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  #23  
Old 08-03-2009, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Play The Man
I am not asking which martial art is the best "base" to have as an MMA fighter. I am asking what is the best martial art to have to use in self-defense? MMA fighters know how to counter most of the moves of the major disciplines. I am talking about going up against your average thug, who probable doesn't have any martial arts training. BJJ would be good because it could neutralize a size difference; however, do they teach any counters against weapons in BJJ? Would you recommend a system like Krav Maga, that is a combination discipline that has a lot of the striking of Muay Thai and trains you primarily for self-defense (knees to the groin, etc.) rather than tournaments. It also addresses counters to weapons. I suppose going to an MMA gym would also give you an integrated approach; however, I don't think they would teach how to counter a knife thrust. It seems like most thugs, give victims the "bum's rush", and try to take them down, and then, if they have a knife, "gut" the victim. It seems to me (not experienced), some of the single discipline martial arts don't prepare well for takedown defense. Any thoughts from someone with knowledge of such matters?
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  #24  
Old 08-03-2009, 03:43 PM
Jason 16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorlion
thats exactly why I suggested Wing Chun, but Judo is god for that as well, as is aikido.
well wing chun was made exactly for street combat
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  #25  
Old 08-04-2009, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Play The Man
I am not asking which martial art is the best "base" to have as an MMA fighter. I am asking what is the best martial art to have to use in self-defense? MMA fighters know how to counter most of the moves of the major disciplines. I am talking about going up against your average thug, who probable doesn't have any martial arts training. BJJ would be good because it could neutralize a size difference; however, do they teach any counters against weapons in BJJ? Would you recommend a system like Krav Maga, that is a combination discipline that has a lot of the striking of Muay Thai and trains you primarily for self-defense (knees to the groin, etc.) rather than tournaments. It also addresses counters to weapons. I suppose going to an MMA gym would also give you an integrated approach; however, I don't think they would teach how to counter a knife thrust. It seems like most thugs, give victims the "bum's rush", and try to take them down, and then, if they have a knife, "gut" the victim. It seems to me (not experienced), some of the single discipline martial arts don't prepare well for takedown defense. Any thoughts from someone with knowledge of such matters?

BJJ / Wrestling / Grappling, etc... are only good if you know you're in a 1 on 1 fight,
in a real self defense scenario that is never guaranteed.

Take a street defense course.
A lot of places offer self defense courses and opposed to just a martial arts class.
Throat strikes, bites, eye gouges, etc... are whats going to save your life in a real attack, not TDD.
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  #26  
Old 08-04-2009, 04:02 AM
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Spiritwalker Spiritwalker is offline
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Here is what we tell people in my dojo.


Big Fish eat little Fish.
Does the Krav-maga fighter have 2 arms and 2 feet?
Does the BJJ guy?
Does the Karate guy..Chinese Boxer, American Boxer? Wrestler?

It's all the same stuff...Contrary to what many schools and teachers and students say.. "It's ALL GOOD". What do you feel comfortable with? Do you like to punch/kick? Like to grapple?

Some people get into martial arts for health.. sport.. and/or self defense.. what are you wanting to do?

At my dojo we study classical Okinawan Kempo Karate-Jutsu. We learn striking, kicking, joint locking, grappling, throws and takedowns, weapons training and effortless knockouts. We also have classes in Shurite JiuJutsu, and Brazilian JiuJutsu, as a blended art and Balintawak Stickboxing.

Some students excel in one or two.. some all, some only one. I favor Shurite jitz over BJJ. I am not the biggest guy in the world and I just don't like the ground game that much. But.. it's good to know how to apply what I know on my feet.. on my back.

Some people say "you don't carry a stick around".. but they are easy to find... rip a car antenna off a car.. man those hurt.. take off your shoe.. the sole of a shoe across a face.. or into the bicep/tricep.. that arm is dead... we train pressure point striking.. some people don't like like/have the patience to learn how to use the knowledge.. so instead of instructing a student to "punch the heart 2 pressure point.." we say.. "punch the inside of the bicep..." still hurts...


One piece of advice I like to give to people..which my sensei gave to me.. it's the "dog theory"... If you go to pet a dog.. the dog doesn't want you to pet him.. what does the dog do?? More the arm out of the way and then go for the throat?? Nope. it bites your hand.. makes sense to me..

Check out this site.. all of these videos were made at my dojo..
http://warriorpages.com/videos/Video..._Chin-Na02.htm
http://warriorpages.com/videos/Video...er_Chin-Na.htm
http://warriorpages.com/videos/Video...ications02.htm
http://warriorpages.com/videos/Video...bow_Series.htm
http://warriorpages.com/videos/Video...plications.htm
http://warriorpages.com/videos/Video...uCoiling01.htm
http://warriorpages.com/videos/ta***...eries2006.html

If you look close.. you will see me in some of the 05 videos wearing my white belt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB-1DPX4wD0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkpXzsMOiAs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytiWNNZ_d_c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl8en12ElZE



"So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a thousand battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself."
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Last edited by Spiritwalker; 08-04-2009 at 04:26 AM.
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  #27  
Old 08-04-2009, 08:20 PM
Crisco
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I'm all about the Kano paradox. Throw away the "lethal" bull**** and only train that which you can train 100% percent.

BJJ, MMA and others arts like Judo don't teach really teach you magic 3 finger death punches.

You train your body for battle. It gets stronger you learn to breathe and it builds your toughness. For a street fight I recommend Judo and Muay Thai.

BJJ is great to know just incase but you rarely want to be on the floor in a street fight. The guys friend will come and kick you in the face while you squeeze for your triangle.

I'm a huge grappling fan. I train almost everyday because I love it but in the street I'm clinching throwing knee's and using uchi mata's, uchi gari's and osoto garis.
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  #28  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:40 PM
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Play The Man Play The Man is offline
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Thank you for all the great answers.

When the UFC first came on the scene, it was almost like a huge laboratory for experimental fights, to test the merits of each martial arts discipline, as compared to others. I would argue that BJJ and wrestling, for the most part, came out on top. In current MMA, the successful style backgrounds are more varied because each competitor has some training in all disciplines, whereas, in the early days, fighters were more likely to be single-discipline in their background. I guess what I'm saying is BJJ or catch wrestling is necessary, but not necessarily sufficient, to be a successful MMA fighter. In addition, BJJ and wrestling, are very effective as single-discipline martial arts against other single-discipline martial arts fighters.

In the real world, wouldn't a streetfight be similar to a mid-90's MMA fight (if weapons aren't involved)? This might not be a fair example but view this clip of a wrestler vs. a TKD fighter:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8tVTuNZ3Zw. The TKD fighter comes in with fancy kicks, the splits, and some flying "Peter Pan" kick and gets absolutely mauled by the wrestler. The TKD fighter is taken out on a stretcher with a broken back. Granted, the wrestler is bigger and more experienced but I doubt the guy would do that to a skinny Royce Gracie. Recently, MMA fighters with a Karate base have been very successful (GSP, Machida). Of course, they have training in all other disciplines. How useful would their Karate be if they didn't have BJJ and wrestling training as well?

I am putting this out there not to start an argument but as someone honestly trying to find an answer from more knowledgeable people. Of course, it would be great to master all areas of martial arts. I guess I am asking what would be the most effective minimalist approach. It seems to me a martial art that includes grappling of some sort, small joint locks, and some training in improvised weapons. What would fit that description?
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  #29  
Old 08-05-2009, 02:36 AM
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Spiritwalker Spiritwalker is offline
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Shuri-te bujitsu then..
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It is because you chose to get on the mat that makes you the winner. Think about how many people are not on that mat right now. - Luis Sucuri Togno
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  #30  
Old 08-05-2009, 02:44 AM
KENTUCKYREDBONE
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The 2 main things a street fight will mostly have that even the first UFC didn't have are weapons and numbers! Other than that I suspect alot of it depends on the skill level of the Folks involved! Of course power and speed don't hurt either. Back when I was a skinny Teenager and folk's wanted to fight me with 3-4 of them and 1 of me I had great success running away. Nowadays I would have to stand my ground and go down swinging if the odds were that much against me. I cant run worth 2 cents anymore!
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