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  #41  
Old 07-16-2009, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Play The Man
I am being serious and trying to help. Take a second job. It doesn't have to be glamorous. Deliver pizzas for 10 hours per week. If you can clear an extra $100 in pay and tips per week and do it for two years, you will have an extra $10,000. You can use that to start up a small business. Alternatively, put the $10,000 in the stock market (no I am not crazy, one good thing about the bad economy is that some good stocks are currently dirt cheap) and hold it there for retirement. If you are in your late 20s and retire in your late 60s, that relatively small amount of money, assuming a reasonable, but not spectacular, growth rate, will have grown, thanks to the magic of compounding, to $500,000 (of course who knows how much that will buy in 40 years . . . and likely your government will have a 95% capital gains tax by that time; however, you get my meaning)
I dont think you realize just how bad the reccession is in England. We are the worst hit of any western Country, if you believe the dailymail (which I know you enjoy )

When Maggie closed the mines, unemployment was at THREE MILLION PEOPLE...its heading that way again. The highest it has been in fifteen years!

You dont seem to understand...GETTING a job is becoming VERY difficult...even a secondary job. Thats precisly why I havent been looking for nearly a whole callendar year now. There is no point. Its not worth the risk to look for another job when businesses are STILL collapsing! ...and the time and effort involved to find even a small part time job is not worth it, in comparisson to the amount of time i'd keep it down before leaving completely. The recession will probably start to wear off this fall. Then I shall look to leave completely.

Also....hate to say this...but some people are better off then me ON BENEFITS!!! (they have no job, now, because they are provided for better then some WITH a job...why bother working AT ALL?)
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  #42  
Old 07-16-2009, 05:29 PM
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You have to pay to send your children to school

In England its illegal to pull a child out of school Home tuition as far as I'm aware simply doesnt happen in this country.

...and the Degrees are not free...as soon as you earn a reasonable wage according to the government, which is MORE then what i'm being paid...you have to pay it all back plus interest. Course if you never make a reasonable wage (the Government have set it quite low so that they can be sure most people will get a high enough wage to start paying it back) you never have to pay it back...because they dont deem you ABLE to pay it back.
Are you saying that "homeschooling" is illegal in England?

If you don't mind me asking, during your loan forbearance, is your loan compounding interest or do they put a "freeze" on the account, as far as further interest compounding on the loan principal?
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  #43  
Old 07-16-2009, 06:04 PM
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1) No, actually, this is the practicalities of working some ideal that relies on a sense of moral aptitude...in an age where the vast moajority of people dont have any. You know that. You just argue for the sake of arguing with me
No, I don't know that. I happen to disagree. I believe that everyone has some morals, to a degree. Whether they choose to call them morals or not.




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Originally Posted by Tyburn
2) Denise...most of the people in high management live for their jobs. Those who are incontrol of the "making money" bit, are not those people who are regular workers. I'm not talking about the position of a single Nurse...I'm talking about those who probably OWN the Hospital.

Those are the people who make decisions that influence thousands of people. In the world of banking, a group of directors, multi-millionaires verify a new procedure...a few years later almost everyone in the entire western world has seen the effects of a verra poor decision indeed. Some Director in ASDA decides without visiting the store to dump a particular supplier...and all the customers go up in arms because they cant buy whatever product it is that we dont sell anymore.

Its the decision making people that are leading capitalism. The rest of us do what we are told under them. Our singular effort wont change anything...but a single decision THEY make can have huge ramifications.
You said almost EVERYONE is only interested in making more money at any costs, including demoralization. NOW you want to change it to a certain people. Okay. But you are STILL wrong. A majority of the class of people you mention are NOT sitting around making demoralizing decisions to make more money that will be to the detriment of others. Does it happen? Absolutely. You can make decisions to make money without harming others. You can also make moral decisions that are harmful to others. You can't exactly say that any decision that hurts people is just to make more money. And you can't say that all decisions to make more money will automatically be immoral or will be harmful to others.

You keep changing directions.


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Originally Posted by Tyburn
3) Usually they travel to begin with. Then they usually start up whatever business it is they want to work in that brings them the most happiness. That makes them fall into the category of people who, once their business is running, can make decisions which have terrific effects. Money has bought them the opportunity to skip climbing the ladder.
So what? You said they DONT work at all. I said they do. The type of job wasn't being discussed.



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Originally Posted by Tyburn

4) I'm not confusing anything.

While you may not be confused, you are confusing the subjects at hand, IMO. You know such generalizations just aren't true. However, you do it purposefully to try to make a better argument for your case. I think sometimes it works and sometimes....it just doesn't.
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  #44  
Old 07-16-2009, 06:08 PM
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Denise...they pay everyone who isnt managers the same hourly rate...unless they are on probabtion.

The managers get paid the same on a salary

The senior Managers get paid on a salary

Dont all the nurses at the same level of qualification in your hospital get paid the same wage (or hourly ammount) ????

NO.

Socialism, would be that everyone in the entire organisation, managers, senior managers, collegues, all got paid exactly the same...not the same ammount per hour...but the same amount regardless of hours worked. A universal non-time based salery.

Honnestly, you guys have no real idea what Communism even is. You guys think Barack Obama is a communist
Okay, if that is correct then I didn't have any idea! I thought in socialism that you could have some professions making more than others within an institution. I thought you had some outside force (the gov't, for instance) deciding just what that pay would be for each one but I didn't know they were all equal.

So, does each organization also have to have equal pay to other similiar organizations as well?

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  #45  
Old 07-16-2009, 06:13 PM
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You dont seem to understand...GETTING a job is becoming VERY difficult...even a secondary job. Thats precisly why I havent been looking for nearly a whole callendar year now. There is no point. Its not worth the risk to look for another job when businesses are STILL collapsing! ...and the time and effort involved to find even a small part time job is not worth it, in comparisson to the amount of time i'd keep it down before leaving completely. The recession will probably start to wear off this fall. Then I shall look to leave completely.

Also....hate to say this...but some people are better off then me ON BENEFITS!!! (they have no job, now, because they are provided for better then some WITH a job...why bother working AT ALL?)


Profound.
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  #46  
Old 07-16-2009, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Play The Man
1) Are you saying that "homeschooling" is illegal in England?

2) If you don't mind me asking, during your loan forbearance, is your loan compounding interest or do they put a "freeze" on the account, as far as further interest compounding on the loan principal?
1) I dont think it would be illegal if you were able to proove you were doing it to the Government. But as far as I know its not covered by the Local Education Authority...and your Child...well how are they going to get the basic qualifications that schools offer?

I dont think you can take GSCEs outside of an Exam Centre within a school or college, which would involve enrollment. The School has to pay for the exams, thats why the enrollment I think.

Its simply not done in England. I have never even heard of homeschooling in this country...and I HAVE heard of parents in court for not making sure their children are in school, and being lumbered with fines and the threat, in one case, of prison.

The main problem with homeschooling is, all those teenaged Mothers who do nothing but live off benefits, probably drug users also, who let their children grow up in central city gangs, who wouldnt care if their child played truent (which is an unauthoized absence) would simply say "we're homeschooling" and get away with it...before you know it...the schools would be empty. If the Government then said they wanted to monitor homeschooling...well not even England would tollerate that kinda invasion of privacy

So technically, its not illegal...but in practicality it vertually never happens

2) I believe that they do put interest on after a certain number of years. I could be wrong...i've really paid absolutely no notice to it. I actually wouldnt have a problem in paying it back when I have a better wage...it wouldnt be very much per month, spread out over the eons I imagine.

BTW...if you dont pay it all back by retirement it is written of, similarly, if you die, its a debt that dies with you. People are still very angry about it. See when less people went to university the Government used to give GRANTS rather then LOANS
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:10 PM
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Profound.
whats profound, Denise, is how I'm facing the difficulty of a recession, thanks to some of your countries citizens.

THATS profound.
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  #48  
Old 07-16-2009, 07:19 PM
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Okay, if that is correct then I didn't have any idea! I thought in socialism that you could have some professions making more than others within an institution. I thought you had some outside force (the gov't, for instance) deciding just what that pay would be for each one but I didn't know they were all equal.

So, does each organization also have to have equal pay to other similiar organizations as well?

In true communism, yes.

True communism is EVERYONE getting EQUAL, not matter what you do, who you do it for, or how long you do it.

In England, Companies decide on whats called a "band" A "band" is an amount of money, or a wage. The ammount of money is called a Salery. Its a fixed yearly amount, not dependant on the time you spend working. A wage is a fixed amount based on a period of time...but incidently, they also say what hours you can work

Everyone on shop floor who is a collegue gets paid the same wage as me. Some get more then me, most get less, because of the ammount of hours they work.

There are a couple of exceptions

All Managers are on fixed salleries, and depending on your level of management, that will say what the ammount is. All managers will get the same ammount within their band. So the Produce manager, earns the same as the Bakery manager (excluding the possibility of bank holiday extras, bonus based on performance, expenditure accounts) The General Store manager gets more then either of the other two managers...but he will get the same as the manager from the next store...unless in London, where he will qualify for London Weighting.

That is the same across the board Denise, across the whole of England

I am shocked that they wouldnt pay all the nurses the same amount. Do they not do the same function?? How come some Nurses are then more favoured then others?? Or does it advance with how long you've been with the company?? Must make work place politics a nightmare...your boss doesnt like you, can he cut your pay????
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  #49  
Old 07-16-2009, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
1) I dont think it would be illegal if you were able to proove you were doing it to the Government. But as far as I know its not covered by the Local Education Authority...and your Child...well how are they going to get the basic qualifications that schools offer?

I dont think you can take GSCEs outside of an Exam Centre within a school or college, which would involve enrollment. The School has to pay for the exams, thats why the enrollment I think.

Its simply not done in England. I have never even heard of homeschooling in this country...and I HAVE heard of parents in court for not making sure their children are in school, and being lumbered with fines and the threat, in one case, of prison.

The main problem with homeschooling is, all those teenaged Mothers who do nothing but live off benefits, probably drug users also, who let their children grow up in central city gangs, who wouldnt care if their child played truent (which is an unauthoized absence) would simply say "we're homeschooling" and get away with it...before you know it...the schools would be empty. If the Government then said they wanted to monitor homeschooling...well not even England would tollerate that kinda invasion of privacy

So technically, its not illegal...but in practicality it vertually never happens

2) I believe that they do put interest on after a certain number of years. I could be wrong...i've really paid absolutely no notice to it. I actually wouldnt have a problem in paying it back when I have a better wage...it wouldnt be very much per month, spread out over the eons I imagine.

BTW...if you dont pay it all back by retirement it is written of, similarly, if you die, its a debt that dies with you. People are still very angry about it. See when less people went to university the Government used to give GRANTS rather then LOANS
There is a fairly large, and growing, home-school movement in the U.S. In the U.S., it is usually, but not always religiously-based. Studies have shown that home-schooled children score higher on standardized tests than children from public schools. The reason I asked is because I have a relative who home-schools his children. He is a high-ranking military officer and his wife home-schools the kids. They are all gifted and have placed in top spots in statewide academic competitions. In addition, they are about the most mature, polite children that you ever will meet. They are athletic and have many friends with the other military kids. I hope I do half as well with my kids.
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  #50  
Old 07-16-2009, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
whats profound, Denise, is how I'm facing the difficulty of a recession, thanks to some of your countries citizens.

THATS profound.
How does pointing a finger of blame change your situation? Do something about it. Oh wait....it is too difficult and too risky.

Cry me a river.
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